BlackRock, Inc. (NYSE:BLK) Goldman Sachs 2022 US Financial Services Conference December 6, 2022 3:00 PM ET
Company Participants
Gary Shedlin – CFO
Conference Call Participants
Alexander Blostein – Goldman Sachs
Alexander Blostein
All right. Well, thanks. Good afternoon, everyone. We’re going to get going with our next session. It is my pleasure to welcome Gary Shedlin, CFO of BlackRock, for one more time at our conferences. Gary recently announced he will be transitioning into a new role as Vice Chairman at BlackRock working closely with some of the key strategic clients, but we get to have you for one more time here. So I’m certainly looking forward to that. With over $8 trillion in assets under management, BlackRock is leading global asset manager, as many of you know, with consistently best-in-class organic growth, given its leadership in ETFs, growing footprint in private markets, multi-assets and a fairly lengthy list of other strategic opportunities. Given your unique position in the markets, I think we’re all looking forward to hearing your perspectives on how 2022 is impacting your clients and the market broadly and how BlackRock is ultimately responding and positioned for that. So thank you for being here.
Gary Shedlin
Thanks for having us and it’s been a pleasure to be here for 10 consecutive years…
Alexander Blostein
10 years. No, that’s right [Technical Difficulty] Is the mic on now? Better? All right. There we go.
Question-and-Answer Session
Q – Alexander Blostein
Okay. So why don’t we jump in? One of the questions that I had for folks over the course of the day, and we’ll probably talk more about it tomorrow is just the impact the markets — the move in the markets had on client portfolios and ultimately asset allocations, but we’ll start to think about 2023. It’s for the first time in a while, liquid fixed income is actually giving people a fairly healthy yield. I know you guys talked about that, and Rob Kapito talked about it on the last earnings call. So how do you expect client asset allocations to evolve, and how is BlackRock’s positioned to participate in that?
Gary Shedlin
Yes. I mean so as you’re right, Rob did talk about this on the earnings call. But I think it’s fair to say the 60-40 portfolio has had a real challenge as the kind of the so called natural hedge of fixed income and equity markets have kind of worked against everybody this year. And I don’t really think we see that changing anytime soon. You and I were talking, it’s been fairly subdued. I mean, BlackRock’s house view, if you will, from our Investment Institute is clearly that we feel that a recession is a matter of when, not if. We think there’s a high likelihood of overcorrection to basically get inflation under control, which generally suggests that the pain in equities is not really priced in. And I think importantly, just given some of the inflationary pressures that are in the marketplace today, whether it’s coming from supply chains, building up supply chain resiliency, labor shortages or even the transition to green energy over time or to slightly less brown energy over time, that those inflationary pressures will suggest that rates will be higher for longer, meaning that it’s unlikely if we’re in a recession that we’re going to see a lot of rate cuts anytime in the near future.
So I think in terms of like what does that mean? I think it means volatility is here for a little while. I think it suggests that we’re going to be almost in a constant state of rebalancing to reacting to kind of a set of macro variables as we see them at any point in time. And we think, frankly, that brings BlackRock into a very special place from a client perspective in this particular market. Scale, multiproduct, global footprint, technology. Obviously, there were some articles this week in terms of different players in technology. But we kind of have all that, we’ve been ready for this. And I think as we think about that, generally speaking, we’ve kind of generally come out of a number of these crisises in the past, whether it was the financial crisis, whether it’s the pandemic in a really strong position because we tend to expand our competitive moat in moments like this. So I think we’re very — we’re cautious, but we’re excited about what it means for BlackRock more particularly. In terms of what it means for client thinking. I know there’s been a lot of discussion about fixed income. There’s no question. I think as we see rates stabilizing at higher levels, we think that will be very positive. Secondarily, whether it’s private credit or infrastructure for different reasons, both income, uncorrelated returns in certain respects, we also think that’s very positive. Generally, defensive on equities. I think equities will have a little bit of more challenged time in ’23, but there are always pockets. So whether it’s the defensive portion income oriented equities, I think we still see that there’s some room to run there. And then finally, cash. I think cash is really returning as a strategic asset, not only because of the yield but because as we see clients who, in some respects, are made that balance with regards to some private commitments, they’re going to need cash to fund a lot of that. And so we think that will be an interesting place to be.
Alexander Blostein
Great. Let’s zone in fixed income a little bit. It’s definitely been a big topic over the course of today for many obvious reasons. But as you look at the landscape between liquid fixed income managers, I want to say this has been a record amount of underperformance in terms of the AUM below the benchmark across fixed income as well as a number of funds and a number of firms. We’ve seen record amount of outflows from active fixed income funds. At the same time, the inflows into ETFs, fixed income has really started to accelerate. So take that a step further, how is iShares franchise positioned to capitalize on that if you could frame the opportunity for fixed income ETFs in this environment for BlackRock?
Gary Shedlin
Yes. I think it’s also about active, so let’s not lose sight of that more broadly. But — and again, just to echo some of what Rob Kapito said on the earnings call. As you think about what’s happened to fixed income allocations, if you were solving for a 7.5% yield overall, going back, let’s say, to the mid-90s, you could have gotten 100% of that return effectively with a fixed income allocation as we fast forwarded into the mid 2000s and we started to see the great moderation really take effect. Generally speaking, you needed about 85% risk assets to get that, whether it’d be equities or alternatives. And back to today, given where rates are, probably a portfolio that has 85% fixed income and 15% risk assets could potentially solve for that. So I think, generally speaking, this from 15% to 85%, we’re seeing that huge jump in terms of [fixed] income. You also don’t have to go very far out on the duration curve to get real return today. The two year was 25 basis points a year ago. Today, it’s over 4%. I think the kind of the short end of the Barclays ag was at 1%, now it’s at 5% and Rick Reader told me yesterday, which I didn’t know — as you can buy like GM commercial paper in six months and still get 5% today. So you don’t have to take a lot of credit risk or duration risk to get those returns today, and that is part of this whole fixed income discussion we talked about.
ETFs are — there’s momentum continuing in ETFs, worried about — and I’m going to see where Carolyn is, $40 billion or so for the quarter, we’re already about $115 billion for the year in terms of fixed income ETFs. That is a record year, beats 2019 even though we’re only in the early part of December. So I think that’s a huge opportunity for us. And we continue to see that market growing. We see a $5 billion — $5 trillion fixed income ETF market that represents a tripling of the size of that market over the next, let’s call it, five plus years. And obviously, with the leading market share, there’s huge embedded growth for us in terms of that, given our market share. Why? Lower cost, better access, electronification of fixed income markets, use of an ecosystem in terms of collateral management. And of course, I think most importantly, frankly, for us is just having a broad based product line across fixed income. So whether that is in governments, or corporates, or munis or emerging markets, having that broad product line, I think, will be incredibly helpful for us.
On the active side, look, we’re a trillion dollar manager in terms of active fixed income. While I think we’ve had some performance hiccups across the franchise here and there, our performance in three to five years is still very strong. I believe it’s 85% as of the end of the third quarter in terms of above peer median or benchmark for three and five years. So obviously, that’s important. And this year, we’ve actually been positive, right? So year-to-date through nine months, we’re at about $35 billion to $40 billion of positive flows in fixed income. And that’s a tale of two cities. We obviously have seen some weakness in retail mutual funds, interestingly, which is primarily a result of higher redemptions, not lower sales. Our sales are running pretty close to 90% of where they were a year ago, but we still have seen outflows, again, hoping to see that, that begins to moderate as rates stabilize, and that traditionally is what has happened in our active fixed income product in these periods of rising rates, you get the outflows as rates stabilize, people rebalance and reallocate in very aggressively. But offsetting those flows has been a very strong institutional year for us in fixed income. We’ll probably talk a little bit more about the outsourcing theme, but very large institutional mandates have been very helpful to us in terms of our flow narrative for the deal.
Alexander Blostein
Let’s talk about the iShares platform a little bit more broadly. Obviously, highlighted a couple of things with respect to fixed income ETF specifically. But when you zoom out a little bit, it’s been such a powerful growth driver for BlackRock over the years. And I’m curious just to get your thoughts how 2022 and the move in the 60-40 portfolio impacts clients thinking about utilization of ETFs, innovation within the ETF space and frankly, maybe some risk as well when it comes to things like direct indexing.
Gary Shedlin
Yes. So look, ETFs continue to grow incredibly well. We’re over $200 billion of flows in our ETF franchise this year alone. We see an $8 trillion industry almost doubling over the next three years to $15 trillion, and we still feel very good about that, very good about that growth dynamic. Again, a couple of reasons, building blocks and whole portfolios, I think that’s going to be incredibly important, especially as we see drivers of growth in fee based wealth, which will be incredibly important. This concept of — and I would call that more new users. Think about new uses. We’ve talked about fixed income, but ESG as well, $400 billion industry today that has grown incredibly rapidly over the last couple of years. We see broad based growth in capital markets over the long term and similar to some of the things we’ve seen in fixed income replacement for individual securities, I think, would be very important. And then finally, ETFs, even though they are passive underlying or become active instruments in many people’s portfolios, whether they be models or whether big institutional managers are beginning to use more precision based exposures to tactically allocate around a core as they want to basically express risk preference and do so very quickly in and out. So we feel really good about that.
You asked a question about direct indexing. We don’t really see direct indexing as a threat to ETFs. Actually, we see it more as a complement in many respects. And again, if we think about private wealth in terms of trying to meet the needs of the wealth manager in any way that he or she wants to do it in any kind of wrapper whether it’s a mutual fund, whether it’s a model, which obviously is very supportive to the growth of ETFs more broadly, or an SMA which is really where custom indexation — direct indexation comes, which is really about customization around whether it’s a set of tax preferences or even social preferences. We think that’s really very complementary for everything that’s in ETFs. This is why we bought Aperio. As you recall, we spent about $1 billion on Aperio in early ’21. Aperio was growing very rapidly, that was part of our thesis that we could help expand their distribution. And I think there was about $4 billion of organic growth. Last year, we’re already close to double that in the first nine months of this year. And between traditional SMAs, Aperio and models, we have about $200 billion of AUM that’s growing at double digits. So again, we’re really excited about the complementary nature of direct indexing.
Alexander Blostein
Great. What are your thoughts on active ETFs? It’s been an area where we’ve seen a lot of growth this year. Some of the — not your typical ETF players have entered the space, a lot of the active managers have act — particularly in the fixed income side of things. Is that an area where you see an opportunity for BlackRock as well?
Gary Shedlin
Yes. I mean I think a lot is made out of active ETFs. We don’t really think about it as an active versus a passive ETF. We think about it more as the investor is making an active or a passive choice. And then the question is what is the optimal wrapper for the choice. Again, is it a mutual fund, is it an ETF, is this separately managed account? So for us, essentially, we’re wrapper agnostic. I think we participate in all three of those markets. Back to your question on direct indexing and customization. We feel we can go wherever the client wants to go in terms of the wrapper. And so I think, really, it’s a passive versus an active decision and the question is what’s the best wrapper. I mean we have we have about $15 billion of active ETFs. I think it’s about 20 ETFs last count, they’re primarily in fixed income and ESG with a small smattering of factors, thematics and other kind of macro trends. But we think that question is really much more about are you paying for the potential for higher alpha relative to your fee, or are you looking for much more of a passive type of benchmark and then pick the wrapper that makes the most sense for you.
Alexander Blostein
Got it. All right. Let’s spend a couple of minutes on outsourcing, you mentioned that in one of your earlier comments as well. And look, I mean BlackRock has been winning really sizable outsourcing mandates for a couple of quarters now. And Larry mentioned on the last call that market challenges could further accelerate the strength, both on the asset management side as well as on your technology side and the [lab] side of the equation. So can you help us frame both of these opportunities and what that could mean for BlackRock into 2023?
Gary Shedlin
Yes. It’s our moment for this. I mean we’ve been building this for 35 years now almost. And when you think about everything we’ve done strategically to create this scaled multiproduct global firm with world class risk and technology analytics, this is the moment for us. And it gets back to the point I was raising earlier, which is moments of inherent volatility generally caused us to come out of it growing quicker, and I think this is just another example. I mean if you think about what this period means in terms of volatility. I mean, big players. And again, when we talk about big players, it’s really insurance companies, big defined benefit plans as well as wealth managers are looking for simplicity. They’re looking for better risk tools, they’re looking for reduced costs, they’re looking to basically do business with a smaller group of large scale providers, and they want someone with a global view who can help them solve problems. And frankly, we’re seeing that now, frankly, across those three areas that I mentioned.
So if you think about outsourced DB whether it’s British Air, General Dynamics or a couple of big recent examples, [Insuranceland], AIG as well as American Equity Life and then big wealth managers, again, this is primarily in Europe, whether it’s Kutz or Robo. Again, we’re seeing a huge opportunity here that, frankly, very few global asset managers, I think you could probably count them on 1 hand, can basically really deliver solutions. Last couple of years, we’ve probably generated about $300 billion-ish from these new opportunities and the pipeline remains really strong. So we’re very much — we’re very bullish on it. It does — and I assume we’ll chat at some point about margin. It does lend itself to some of the investment we have to keep making to support onboarding and servicing of these big complicated relationships. But as we start to do more, we can start to pivot and reallocate those resources going forward.
Alexander Blostein
Got it. Before we get there, I want to spend a couple more minutes on another important product area that we’ve spoken about in quite some time as private markets. I guess first question is sort of what is the vision broadly for BlackRock within private markets, what products are you leaning into? And then as a subcategory to that, I would love to get your perspective on retail and illiquid alt. Obviously, there’s been a lot more nervousness in that channel. There’s been outflows from a number of sizable providers in that market. To what extent does that change your view on private markets for retail broadly?
Gary Shedlin
Yes. So let’s just start at the top with the broad based alts business, and then we can kind of zoom in or double click on the illiquid stuff. So we’re a $300 billion-plus alternatives platform today. I think that would put us roughly as a top 10 player in alts land. We have about $150 billion in what we would call illiquids, and I’ll come to that in a second. $80 billion, what I would call more liquid alternatives. And then to put it on more of an apples-to-apples comparison and the way we manage the business, liquid credit is another $80 billion. So you add that up, you’re to that $300 billion or so. To scale it, it’s a $2 billion business for us. We have about $37 billion of dry powder, meaning it’s committed, but yet uninvested and we don’t actually get paid until that money is in the ground. So deployment is critically important to us on that. And I believe that Edwin Conway, who runs that business back in June ’21, and we’ll be having another Investor Day coming up in June that we’re looking forward to welcoming you all that. We committed to about $100 billion of raise over the next three years and we’re about two thirds into that, and I think we feel we’re really on target to meet those illiquid fundraising goals. There’s really four major areas in terms of illiquid for us. We have an infrastructure business. We have private credit. We have real estate and then what we call more private equity solutions. Recall, we’re not a huge direct private equity player but we have obviously a very significant private equity solutions business.
And I’d say our major focus going forward and where we’re going to lean in really is in three areas; one is private credit, that’s about $40 billion or so; private — infrastructure, which is, let’s call it, another $35 billion. And the opportunity for us really to develop and solve client solutions, what I would call more of a multi-alternative solutions opportunity and again, that really speaks to the way we cover clients. So unlike some of the other asset managers who presented to you today, and frankly, some of the alternative guys, we don’t really run this multi-boutique platform. We run a fully integrated business, which allows us to bring not only traditional and alternative together but even within alternative trying to solve for our clients’ long term solutions business. We’re pretty young if you think about it when it comes to alternatives. I mean we really only got into the alternatives business in any significant way. When we bought the Merrell platform, which put us into this private equity solutions business, we got a small nascent real estate business from the old State Street research acquisition we did in ’05. But really, we’ve tried to grow that business inorganically through a number of smaller tuck-in acquisitions. And so we’re really just beginning to hit our stride, meaning that successor funds that we’re raising now and most of our successor funds, for the most part, are three and four as opposed to 18 or 19 or 20, are starting to now get really scaled as we realize the benefits and the synergies from those deals.
So as a good example, we’re in the market now with our Global Power Fund IV. We raised Global Power III right after the First Reserve acquisition. That was about a $3.5 billion raise a couple of years ago, which would have been the largest illiquid raise for BlackRock ever. The first close on Global Power IV was about $4.5 billion.. And we think by the time we’re done $7.5 billion and maybe even $10 billion is possible. DLF, Direct Lending Fund, [10], which came as part of the Tennenbaum acquisition. Again, when you add up all the pieces of that by the time we’re done should be roughly a $10 billion raise for us potentially. So we’re starting to get into more sizable raises as we grow that. And what’s our competitive advantage? I mean, I think if you look at where we think we have a competitive advantage, we have sourcing. A, we’re BlackRock, people want us in their deals, and we’re global. Two, we have technology through our eFront acquisition, which not only allows us to basically sell that to third party, but we use that internally effectively to think about whole portfolio risk analytics. Three is the solutions opportunity that I talked about. And fourth will be this concept of sustainability, which is really just starting to ramp up. That will help us out in private equity, especially as you think about the transition, whether it’s decarbonization partners or renewable energy in terms of what we’re doing. So we think that, that’s very, very exciting and a huge growth area. And we would expect to see a very sizable ramp-up in performance fees from our illiquid business as we start to realize the maturation of the funds, and we start to get into successor funds later.
So over the next, I would say, three to five years, we should keep an eye on that. You mentioned retail. I think we’re — if we’re fair, we’re a little late to the game in terms of retail alts. We’ve approached it differently. We don’t have a category killer like some of our other competitors. Maybe that will serve us well as we get into this next cycle, we’ll see. But I would say by early next year, we should basically have product capabilities in kind of all of those major areas. We have a product capability in private equity. We have some private BDCs that are in the market. We will have a private REIT up and running next year. We can just debate whether that’s good timing or not. And then we’ve really hit the, what I would call, the pre-IPO emerging growth to our closed end funds that have the ability to invest up to 25% of their assets in some of those investments. So we’ve got product entrants in all of them. We obviously feel we can really lean on our distribution strength. And we definitely see from the big distribution firms today a desire, not only a willingness, but actually desire to broaden out the number of vendors that they want to do business with because it’s, as we know, very concentrated. So we’ll see where they go. But we’re obviously very cognizant of the liquidity mismatch that come from that. So we’re trying to be incredibly cautious as we move forward.
Alexander Blostein
Got it. But broadly speaking, does it sound like there’s a pullback from you on some of these initiatives [illiquids] to retail.
Gary Shedlin
There’s not a pullback. But as I said it’s — we’re much smaller than everybody else in terms of that — well, certainly in terms of one major competitor turn there. But we see that as a great growth opportunity going forward. Again, given the fixed income dynamics we talked about, potentially less so in terms of basically locking in that yield…
Alexander Blostein
Yes, makes sense. Okay. Let’s switch gears a little bit. Let’s talk a little bit about the P&L. Starting really with organic base fee growth. It’s a metric that is super important to you. It’s super important to the investment community. It’s been a tougher year, largely for cyclical reasons, one could argue, precision products, divergent beta dynamics that’s all weighed on organic base fee growth. As you look forward over the next 18 to 24 months, how do you envision organic base fee growth evolving given still obviously quite uncertain macro backdrop?
Gary Shedlin
Yes. So it’s a great question. We’re going through our budget season now, as you can well imagine, and trying to really get a sense of how our client businesses and our product people are thinking about growth going to next year. Again, we just step back. Back in ’13, my first Investor Day, we set our organic growth target to be 5% as a base fee target. When we were actually a much smaller organization, we’re probably in the $4 trillion range at that point. And the question was, could we continue to do that as a large firm. In seven of the last nine years, we’ve actually exceeded the 5% growth. And the two years where we saw the market kind of take a step back, ’16 and ’18, we were positive low single digit. And I would expect that at the end of this year, by the end of this year, we’ll be in a similar place. We will be positive. It will be low single digit. But everything right now is trending towards the fact that we will still have positive organic base fee growth at the end of 2022. And that is really, again, how we’ve been put together. It’s about diversification. I think we were very clear, some of you may not remember. But we were very clear that as we came out of the pandemic in ’20 and ’21 and we saw 7% organic growth and 11% organic growth [as] fee, we were, don’t count on that. It’s 5% through the cycle. And we have — think about us as a 12 cylinder engine. When all 12 cylinders are pumping at the same time, we can hum. But it’s very rare that all 12 cylinders will ever be firing at the same time. And so as we go into next year, we’re trying to figure out which of those cylinders are going to be supportive to our growth.
So where do we see that growth? And I think we’ve talked about ETFs, again, whether it’s fixed income, whether it’s ESG, whether it’s core that continues to grow very, very well. We talked about fixed income more on the active side where we will see, I think, a big surge on fixed income flows, including active as rates stabilize, hopefully, as we get into mid to late 2023. We have huge embedded growth in alternatives, as we just mentioned, $37 billion of dry powder. I would say that there will be a question as has the speed of that deployment over the next year or so. But remember, most of that capital for us is in private credit and infrastructure. It is not in pure play private equity, so we don’t necessarily see a huge slowdown in our ability to deploy that, and we’ve probably been doing somewhere around $4 billion to $5 billion a quarter. There’s that embedded $240 million of base fee growth that will come from that just from deploying that existing capital. We talked about OCIO, where we see a strong pipeline and cash is going to, we think, yielding 3% plus. At the moment, we think cash will continue to begin once — now that we’re out of our fee waivers, that is a very accretive opportunity for us in terms of organic growth. So I think we feel pretty good about that. Where is the risk? The risk is in fundamental active equities. And I think there’s both some short term performance challenges that we’ll need to dig our way out of that doesn’t make us unique in any shape or form but also we need those redemptions to kind of settle down, which hopefully, will come as the market volatility settles down if we reprice into the recession that’s coming.
Alexander Blostein
Great. All right. That was helpful. So before we let you off the stage, we definitely want to talk about expenses as you noted earlier. So as you think about BlackRock’s ability to invest through a challenging time, that’s over time is paid off, right? I mean you guys have been able to deliver significant growth well above anybody else in the traditional asset management industry, partially because you’ve invested through the cycle. On the last call, you suggested that you’re starting to pull back maybe from some areas and looking to kind of zone in on areas where you could save some money given that the revenue environment has been challenging. So any latest thoughts on kind of where you’re leaning into still from a growth perspective, where are you pulling back aAnd any thoughts on ’23 core G&A expense growth?
Gary Shedlin
So again, great question. I told a lot of people that last year’s budget season was the toughest budget season I had encountered, because everything was humming and everyone wanted more money to invest in their business. And when everybody has their hand out, it’s difficult. This year is definitely tougher as we think about trying to figure out because we do have significant parts of our business that continue to grow. And again, back to this construct around our competitive moat and we’re feeling very comfortable about expanding that moat in moments of market volatility, the challenge for us is all about aggressively reallocating to try and get money to the high growth areas of the firm. I think that we are very cognizant that organic growth drives RPE as an asset manager. So our goal continues to be to try and optimize organic growth in the most efficient way we possibly can. But we’re also very cognizant of the fact that this year, in particular, when you have — we’ve got a little bit of benefit. But when you have equity in fixed income markets down double digits, it has a significant impact on our entry rate going into next year. And frankly, we just couldn’t control that. We’re generating huge organic — I shouldn’t say huge, but we’re generating 4% or so organic asset growth, that mix change is driving a much lower organic revenue growth, albeit it will be positive. And so we do need to begin to think about resetting our level of expense relative to our level of revenue to make sure that we’re appropriately balancing the right answer for shareholders and employees and clients from that standpoint.
Coming out of the pandemic, we debated at length how fast we should pull back. I think the good news is we chose not to, thank goodness we didn’t because the market bounced back very quickly. I don’t think we feel that the market is bouncing back nearly as quickly at this point in time. So we’re trying to be a little bit more prudent. Third quarter earnings call, we announced what I would call a step back in hiring in the — or the second quarter call, in the third quarter call, we announced a more normal, I would say, freeze other than critical hires. And we also announced that we were going to kind of tamp down on some of our more discretionary G&A going into the end of the year. And I think as we go into next year, it puts us in a much better position that we did do both of those things.
As we think about what we’re going to do and where we’re going to put the resources, we’ve talked about a lot of them today. Continued growth and scaling needed in alternatives, ETFs in terms of embedded growth, our technology business, OCIO, those are what I would call the big four areas that we think we need to continue to grow in, and we’re going to do everything we can to try and figure out ways, if you will, to reallocate aggressively across the business to make sure that we can do that. And look, I think we’ve been pretty good stewards of capital. I think we have to remember that everyone always asks give us your margin by business. We don’t like to talk about that. But I will tell you that our highest margin business is Beta, that’s probably a 70% margin business. The good news is on the way up, that’s true. The bad news is on the way down that that’s true. So I think we’re trying to be very, very mindful in terms of how we stabilize, we level set expense and we get back to making sure that we do everything we can to make sure we hit that 5% organic base fee growth target, again, the most efficient way we can.
Alexander Blostein
Great. Well, we’re at time. So unfortunately, no time for the Q&A. But Gary, just one more time I want to congratulate you on your role. And really thank you the insights you provided to us over the years and for all your dedication to the investment community. So thank you so much.
Gary Shedlin
Thank you.
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