AbbVie Inc. (NYSE:ABBV) 41st Annual J.P. Morgan Healthcare Conference Call January 10, 2023 6:00 PM ET
Company Participants
Rick Gonzalez – Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Rob Michael – President
Jeff Stewart – Chief Commercial Officer
Conference Call Participants
Chris Schott – J.P. Morgan
Chris Schott
Good afternoon, everybody. I’m Chris Schott at J.P. Morgan. And it’s my pleasure to be introducing AbbVie today. From the company, we have a presentation from Rick Gonzalez, AbbVie’s Chairman and CEO. And after the presentation, we’re going to have a Q&A session with a broader swath of the management team, including Rob Michael, President of AbbVie; Chief Commercial Officer, Jeff Stewart; and Chief Medical Officer; Roopal Thakkar. So with that, I’m going to turn it over to Rick. Happy New Year, and thanks for joining us today.
Rick Gonzalez
Thanks, Chris.
Chris Schott
Thank you.
Rick Gonzalez
Well, thank you, Chris, and good afternoon, everyone, and certainly a pleasure to be here with all of you. Before I begin, please take a moment to review the forward-looking statement. I know it’s the most enjoyable thing that you have here for a couple of minutes before we move forward. This is certainly an exciting time when we think about our company. We’re just finishing up our 10th year operating as an independent company.
AbbVie has grown over the past decade to become a leading pharmaceutical company with a market capitalization of $285 billion, and a track record of consistently delivering top tier financial performance and strong execution. We’ve also become a company that has evolved over time to have very strong operating characteristics. We have a diversified portfolio with significant leadership positions in several major therapeutic categories supported by industry leading commercial capabilities and execution.
We have an R&D engine that has discovered and developed five major blockbusters over the past decade. These assets are expected to generate approximately $16 billion in annual revenues in 2022. And we have a robust pipeline across all stages of development. We have also strategically acquired and successfully integrated several differentiated assets to further support AbbVie’s long-term growth. These efforts have resulted in an outstanding total shareholder return of more than 600% since our inception.
We certainly created a very strong foundation as we enter 2023. The event that we have all been long planning for here to AbbVie, the U.S. Humira loss of exclusivity, which will begin later this month, will have an impact on AbbVie’s total performance in the near-term. We’ve now secured Humira formulary access for more than 90% of the U.S. covered lives this year.
When we issued formal 2023 guidance, on the fourth quarter call, it’s important to note that the lower end of our EPS outlook range will represent [floor earnings] [ph] for the company. Regardless of the shape of the erosion curve over the next two years, we do not anticipate that 2024 earnings will be lower than the initial 2023 EPS guidance given that the momentum and growth from another year of our broader portfolio is expected to more than offset any potential incremental Humira erosion that could occur in 2024.
Ultimately though, we remain well-positioned to absorb the impact from the Humira LOE and quickly return to strong growth starting in 2025. We continue to anticipate a clearer path to strong sales growth in 2025 with high-single-digit compounded annual growth rate to the end of this decade. With our robust long-term growth outlook, AbbVie clearly represents a unique investment opportunity, well-positioned for attractive shareholder returns.
Following the U.S. Humira event, we expect AbbVie’s revenue growth to be among the highest in our industry. We will also have one of the lowest LOE exposures through the end of this decade and expect our strong business performance will generate substantial cash flow to support our capital allocation needs. This includes investing in innovative R&D across our therapeutic categories, as well as the capacity to continue to do business development to augment our pipeline in our portfolio. Growing our dividend, this remains a key priority and reflects an attractive yield for our shareholders.
Last October, we announced a 5% increase in our cash quarterly dividend, which we have now grown by 270% since our inception and this further underscores our level of confidence in AbbVie’s long-term outlook. And finally paying down debt. We have made substantial progress and remain on-track to achieve roughly $34 billion of cumulative pay down through 2023.
Now moving to Slide 5. Our long-term growth will be driven by numerous differentiated assets across each of our core areas. Let’s start with immunology. In immunology, our performance and execution has been outstanding and we’re well-positioned for sustained leadership. Skyrizi and Rinvoq are now commercialized across all of Humira’s major indications, plus a distinct new indication, atopic dermatitis.
These two new therapies are demonstrating impressive results with more than $7.5 billion of combined sales expected in 2022. We also have several promising R&D programs underway in our core disease areas within immunology, and in areas of immunology where there are few or no effective treatments. Areas like lupus, GCA, HS, Alopecia, Vitiligo and PMR.
Turning now to Slide 6. The rapid indication expansion of Skyrizi and Rinvoq took place in less than half of Humira’s development timeline. With the addition of atopic dermatitis, these two assets together now span a greater portion of the global immunology market than Humira did. And we expect they will remain major growth drivers for the company through the end of this decade and beyond.
Based on the strong launch trajectory across the currently approved indications, as well as the progress that we’re making with additional label expansion Skyrizi and Rinvoq are now on pace to deliver more than $17.5 billion in combined sales, risk adjusted sales in 2025, well above our previous expectations. We now expect global sales for Skyrizi to reach more than $10 billion in 2025, an increase of $2.5 billion versus our previous guidance, reflecting higher performance across basically all of the indications.
We continue to expect Rinvoq to achieved more than $7.5 billion of global sales in 2025. This outlook now contemplates higher sales, in IBD based on the strong approved label for UC and the robust data demonstrated in our clinical program for Crohn’s disease. This increased momentum in IBD is expected to be offset by lower contributions in rheumatology, given the impact from the global update to JAK inhibitor labels.
As we look beyond 2025, we expect combined sales for Skyrizi and Rinvoq to exceed the peak revenues achieved by Humira, which was more than $21 billion. We expect that to happen in 2027 with continued significant growth anticipated in the following years.
Moving now to Slide 7. AbbVie has built a significant leadership position in hematological oncology with Imbruvica and Venclexta. While Imbruvica is expected to generate significant cash flow through the end of this decade, recent challenging market and share dynamics attributed to both the pace of COVID recovery, as well as new competitive entrants has significantly lowered our sales expectations for Imbruvica. This expected revenue impact will be partially offset by the continued strong growth from Venclexta, our first-in-class BCL-2 inhibitor for multiple hematological malignancies.
Venclexta’s [proven indications] [ph] in both CLL and AML are both seeing robust share of performance. Potential ongoing label expansion in other important areas such as multiple myeloma in the T1114 patient population, as well as high risk MDS also have the potential to drive meaningful long-term growth for this business. As a result, the near-term outlook for Imbruvica, we now expect global oncology revenues to decline to approximately $5.7 billion in 2023 and anticipate sales will remain relatively flat for 2024 and 2025.
As we look at Slide 8 now, we expect our oncology pipeline to return to sales growth in 2026 with the anticipated launch, and indication ramps of several new products for both blood cancer and some solid tumors. These promising late stage oncology opportunities include Epcoritamab, a potentially best-in-class CD3xCD20 bispecific for B-cell malignancies, including DLBCL and follicular lymphoma. The initial approval is anticipated later this year.
Navitoclax, a novel BCL-2/BCL-xL inhibitor with the potential to improve symptoms, reverse fibrosis, and modify the course of myelofibrosis. We anticipate approval of that asset in 2024. And Teliso-V, our c-MET ADC with the potential to become an important new treatment option for non- squamous non-small cell lung cancer, we anticipate approval for the initial indication in 2024.
As you can see on Slide 9, beyond the late stage programs that I just outlined, we have a pipeline of early stage assets that are aimed at both heme and solid tumor. We’ve begun to see some very exciting data from several solid tumor programs, including our anti-GARP antibody ABBV-151, and our PTK7 ADC, ABBV-647. We expect proof-of-concept data from roughly a dozen additional early stage oncology opportunities over the next couple of years.
Now moving to Slide 10. In neuroscience, we have compelling therapies for migraine, psychiatric conditions and neurodegeneration. I’ll start with migraine, where our distinct therapies are demonstrating robust growth. Our leading portfolio includes UBRELVY, an oral CGRP treatment for acute migraine, that provides rapid and sustained pain relief with convenient dosing. UBRELVY continues to demonstrate robust growth and has the potential for peak sales in excess of $1 billion.
We also have Qulipta, the only oral CGRP treatment specifically developed for the preventative treatment of migraine. Potential label expansion in the U.S. as a preventative treatment for patients with chronic migraine and a new therapy approval we expect in Europe will further support Qulipta’s utilization and we believe that Qulipta’s peak sales can exceed $1 billion as well. Rounding out our migraine portfolio is Botox, a unique treatment with a dozen approved therapeutic indications and is the clear branded leader in chronic migraine prevention.
Turning now to Slide 11. In Psychiatry, we’re focused on treatment options for mood, thought, and anxiety disorders. Vraylar continues to demonstrate robust growth in a heavily genericized market. Vraylar is differentiated by a strong benefit risk profile relative to other atypical antipsychotics, including efficacy across multiple indications with minimal impact on weight, lipids, and fasting blood glucose.
Vraylar was recently approved as an injunctive treatment for major depressive disorder and is now the only antipsychotic that is a dopamine and serotonin partial agonist approved for the treatment of the most common forms of depression, Bipolar 1 and MDD. With continued share gains and the MDD approval, we now expect Vraylar’s peak sales to approach $5 billion.
As you look at Slide 12, we’re also making good progress advancing an innovative pipeline of neurodegeneration assets. ABBV-951 is a potentially transformative treatment for patients with advanced Parkinson disease. With a subcutaneous non-surgical delivery system, we believe 951 can significantly expand the patient population currently addressed by DUOPA. We anticipate regulatory approval this year and believe 951 has the potential to achieve peak sales in excess of $1 billion.
We also have R&D efforts aimed at discovering and developing disease modifying therapies to treat Alzheimer’s. Our pipeline includes an optimized a-beta antibody program for faster amyloid clearance with low ARIA and patient friendly dosing schedule. Approach is for clearing intracellular tau aggregates and investigational assets that modulate neuroinflammation response. We recently began a Phase 2 study in AD for our lead a-beta antibody ABBV-916 and look forward to providing updates on our neural programs as that data matures.
Moving to Slide 13. We’re the clear leader in aesthetics, a $14 billion global market, which is largely cash pay. Our portfolio is anchored by well-known brands that span several core areas, including Botox Cosmetic, the market leading neurotoxin, JUVEDERM, a leading portfolio of injectable and dermal fillers, as well as numerous products and technologies for body contouring, plastics, skincare, and regenerative medicine.
We see substantial room for further market penetration across each of the aesthetic categories and we’ve made strategic investments to support that long-term growth. Those efforts include a focus on new product innovation, including a pipeline of innovative toxins, as well as novel biostimulatory and regenerative fillers. Targeted field force expansion in major global markets including China, Japan, and Latin America, as well as increased direct-to-consumer and enhanced services to drive consumer activation and retention.
As a predominantly consumer facing category, aesthetic treatment procedures can be impacted by changing economic conditions. And while it’s difficult to predict, how inflation and consumer confidence may play out this year in the U.S., our large installed base of existing patients, as well as the rapid and sustained recovery of our aesthetics portfolio experienced following the 2008, 2009 recession gives us a tremendous amount of confidence that any near-term economic impact will be transient.
Over the long-term, aesthetics continues to be an extremely attractive underpenetrated market with significant growth potential. And we remain confident in our ability to achieve total sales of more than $9 billion by 2029.
Turning to Slide 14. Our goal with Eye Care is to help protect and preserve vision. We have a strong commercial foundation with a broad portfolio of treatments for multiple different eye diseases. We also have been advancing several new products and novel therapies to address areas of significant unmet need. This includes RGX-314, which is an anti-VEGF gene therapy that has the potential to be a one-time treatment for wet AMD, diabetic retinopathy and other chronic retinal conditions.
Moving now to Slide 15. AbbVie has built a productive innovation driven R&D organization with a robust pipeline. We set aggressive goals across our discovery and development organizations and we’re proud of our ability to develop medicines that have clearly elevated standard of care for patients. AbbVie’s R&D efforts continue to demonstrate strong progress with more than 80 clinical and device programs across all stages of development.
The breadth and the depth of our pipeline is there to be able to support our long-term growth outlook and we anticipate numerous important pipeline milestones will occur over the next two years. As you can see on this slide, Slide 17, we anticipate the potential approval of roughly a dozen new products or major indications in 2023 and 2024, which will collectively add meaningful revenue growth over the next several years. This includes multiple new product approvals, such as Epcoritamab, 951, Navitoclax, and Teliso-V, as well as expanded indications for Skyrizi, Rinvoq, Venclexta, and Qulipta, as well as many others.
Over this two-year timeframe, we expect proof-of-concept data from more than 15 early and mid-stage programs. These programs have the potential to drive additional growth for AbbVie over the mid to latter part of this decade.
So, in summary, what I’d say is, we are obviously executing well across the business. We’ve assembled an impressive set of diversified assets and that gives us a tremendous amount of confidence in being able to drive the long-term growth outlook of our company.
With that, I’ll turn it over to Chris for Q&A. Chris?
Question-and-Answer Session
Q – Chris Schott
Thanks very much. We’ll get in focus on stage here. I thought as an opening question, obviously, we’re right on the cusp of biosimilar Humira coming to market. So, can you maybe share your latest thinking? I know you’ll give specific guidance in a few weeks, but latest thinking on how we should think about Humira dynamics as we go through 2023? I think you’ve talked about the product having 90% of covered lives at parity with biosimilars. I’m just trying to get our hands around how to think about, kind of volume and price and just any…?
Rick Gonzalez
It’s obviously an important question and an important issue for investors and let me take a high level cut at it and then Rob and Jeff certainly can add anything from their perspective. Obviously, one of the most important things was for us to ensure that we could get broad access for Humira. And I’d say the team has done a very nice job. We now have a little over 90% access for next year for Humira at parity. What that means is, essentially it will be on formulary with biosimilars, but there won’t be any difference between the biosimilar and Humira from a co-pay standpoint or any kind of a step editing.
So, essentially, it will compete head-to-head against those biosimilars, which is obviously a good position for us to be in. As you look at that, and you try to analyze what will the erosion look like? I think the best way to think about the erosion is this. Based on that formulary access, obviously, the 10% that we don’t have, we’re likely to see fairly significant volume erosion in there.
We’ll probably see some level of volume erosion in the 90% that we do have coverage, although I would say it’s probably going to be much more modest. Because there’s not as much motivation for those physicians to be able to make a change. The second part that you have to think through is you’re trying to model the impact on Humira going forward would be price.
So, the bulk of the impact that we will see in 2023 will be driven by price reductions in order to get that formulary access. Obviously, we had to compete against the biosimilars in order to be able to get that level of access. And because one biosimilar will enter the market at the beginning of this year, but 7 or 8 will enter mid-year. What you ultimately will see is a certain level of price erosion in the first half of the year and a higher level of price erosion in the second half of the year when the environment was more competitive.
So, the contracts are structured for the most part in that manner. So, you should expect higher level a price erosion in that second half. So, that’s how I think you can think about 2023. And as you think going forward to 2024, there are a couple of things that you have to, sort of factor in. One is that point I just made and that is because there will be higher erosion in the second half of the year, you have to annualize that erosion going into 2024. That’s one of the things that’s important to do. I think it’s likely that we will see more volume erosion in 2024 than we would have seen in 2023. Because there’ll be more – all the biosimilars will be on the market. There will be more – there’ll be more accustomed to them at that point.
So, we’ll be an even more competitive environment. But as we said before, regardless of the shape of what that erosion curve looks like, our intent is to give you floor earnings within that range. And then the growth of our current business is more than sufficient to be able to offset any incremental erosion in the event we were to see that curve shift out a bit into 2024. Anything you’d add, Rob or Jeff?
Rob Michael
No. I think you’ve fully covered it, Rick.
Jeff Stewart
That’s good. Maybe just to add one thing. I mean, over the fall, obviously, we were still in the heart of the negotiations. But to the point that Rick highlighted with the 90% that’s from a parity lives perspective, that’s a certainty now. So, we’ve gotten signed agreements with all of the major U.S. payers and so we feel very good as we go into that fourth quarter call that’s upcoming.
Chris Schott
Great. Can I talk about – a new question for Rob? Operating margins have kind of hovered in the low 50s over the last couple of years, and I think you’ve talked in the past about a margin range maybe in the 46%, 47% range as you go through this LOE cycle. So, I guess the first question is, are you still comfortable with that range to the extent you can comment on it? And then as we exit this period and growth resumes, how do we think about a normalized margin for AbbVie longer-term?
Rob Michael
Yes, that’s right, Chris. So you think about 46% or 47% would apply for – in 2023, we stay at that level in 2024, then it was we return to strong revenue growth in 2025, we’ll start to see operating margins expand once again. Now, the pace of expansion will depend on investment. These will obviously fully fund R&D and SG&A to grow the business long-term, but you will see us expand operating margin. We will be top tier even at the trough levels, but you should expect to see operating margin expansion starting in 2025.
Chris Schott
Okay. And can I ask a question on capital deployment? I know the company has pretty rapidly paid down the Allergan debt. It seems like we’re going to position in 2023 that we can maybe think about capital deployment in a more meaningful way. So, talk a little bit about how you think about priorities for the organization right now? And kind of what’s the sweet spot of what AbbVie would be considering in that transaction?
Rick Gonzalez
No, it’s a great question, Chris. I mean we look at business development, it’s something that we do on an ongoing basis to be able to support the long-term growth objectives of the business. We always assume that a certain percentage of our growth is going to have to come from assets that we acquire on the outside and either bring in and develop or just acquire on the outside businesses that we might acquire going forward.
Having said that, when we look at our long range plan, we’re obviously very comfortable with our ability to be able to grow it at a top tier level from 2025 and beyond with the assets that we have today. So, we’re obviously in a very good position. Much of that is driven by the products we’ve talked about before. Skyrizi and Rinvoq, when you think about those assets, being able to surpass Humira’s peak sales by 2027 and continue to grow they are massive drivers of growth for this business going forward.
And then you have the migraine franchise. You have Vraylar. You have the Aesthetics business. So, you have a number of different growth drivers that are allowing you to be able to get there. So, what I would say is, we’re not in a position where we have to go out and do business development in order to be able to support our growth objectives.
Having said that, we obviously continue to look for opportunities. I’d say our focus primarily is bringing in assets that will allow us to be able to continue to drive that high single-digit top tier growth 30 and beyond. So, we want to bring in assets that basically can start to contribute in the latter part of this decade is our primary focus. We obviously look for assets primarily in the areas that we’re in now.
We have a fairly broad based business, immunology, neuroscience, oncology, and aesthetics. So, we have a broad based business that we can bring things into to be able to grow that. To your point though, obviously, we’re in a position where we’ve rapidly paid down the Allergan debt. So, we have more capacity if we wanted to do something bigger. And we always evaluate is there something out there that can really fundamentally help us make the business stronger? And if there is, can we get it at the right value point that we can bring it in and create value.
I think the Allergan transaction is a classic example of a large transaction that fit that. We’re able to buy Allergan at a good value. We brought it in. We integrated it. We pulled $2.5 billion worth of synergies out. And then we accelerated the growth of the business from what it was as part of Allergan. And that allowed us to create a tremendous amount of accretion. And that’s obviously the right formula that you want to look for.
Now, you don’t find those opportunities that often, right, let’s be fair? But we continue to look for those or other kinds of opportunities. The other thing I’d say is, if there are opportunities that would allow us to be able to more rapidly build a franchise that we have, like Eye Care as an example. We have this REGENXBIO asset in Eye Care. It’s one I’m tremendously excited about.
The early data, it looks very interesting. But Eye Care is a business that Allergan had a very strong position. It’s a market we like. It’s a fairly concentrated group of physicians clinically oriented from a data standpoint. That’s what we tend to do the very best. So, we can find more assets, more proprietary pharmaceutical assets to bring into that franchise, that’s something we will be motivated to do.
Chris Schott
Okay. So kind of wide range of things that could be looked at, but it seems like kind of maybe the priority is, kind of extending growth beyond 2030 at this point versus something in the near-term. Can I ask on oncology, I know you gave the target for 2023, 2024. I think it was a bit below where consensus was. I guess one of my questions with this is, the return to growth, why does it take to 2026 to get back to growth? And I kind of think – I think I understand that Imbruvica hit in the near-term, but as we think about it’s been collected as label building out, you’ve got some launches on your own. Help me a little bit about the recovery curve as we, kind of get through this Imbruvica erosion?
Rick Gonzalez
Well, I think we have a number of assets that will start to return that franchise to growth. Epcoritamab, the indication expansion in Venclexta, the T1114 and the MDS label expansion, and then Teliso-V and Navitoclax. But all of those basically occur around 2024 or 2025. And the initial indications like Epcoritamab will occur this year, but the initial indication is relatively small.
So, we need some time to be able to build up those indications to get them large enough to be able to start to drive a franchise of that size, right? Almost $6 billion kind of franchise. So, it’s just a question of being able to get enough momentum out of those other assets. And that will take a year or two to be able to get there.
Chris Schott
Okay. Quick update on the Aesthetics business. Kind of sequentially, has there been any signs of either stability or further weakening or just anything to report in terms of how that’s been performing?
Rick Gonzalez
So, as you probably recall, last year, up till May, the Aesthetics business and the market was growing very, very rapidly, right? And in the month of May, we saw this step down and then step down a little bit more in the summer. The leading indicators that we look at, the economic indicators that we look at started stepping down in sort of the March timeframe. So, we know they were an early indicator, but we didn’t see it in the business until we got to May.
If you look at those indicators as we’ve been following them throughout the year, they come down and they pretty much stabilize where they are now. So, we have seen some stability in both the business and in the market itself, but at those lower levels. Now, the parts of the business that have been most impacted are the higher price point products. So, as an example, body contouring, the price point is about $3,000 to $4,000. Fillers, price point is about $1,000 to $1,500. They have been more impacted by the economic pressure.
Toxins we’ve seen some impact, but a lesser impact. But the price point for toxins is about $500, so it’s less sensitive to that. So, I think as we look at 2023, the key call is going to be, is the economy – what’s going to happen, especially in the U.S. economy going forward? Are we going to stabilize where we are now? And so, I would expect these indicators to continue to be stabilized and the business stabilized at this level or are we going to see that the U.S. goes into a recession? And if it does go into a recession, is it a shallow short recession? Hopefully, right. Or is it deep and long? And what happens to unemployment?
If it’s the latter, I would expect we will see more impact. If it’s the former, then I would expect it’s going to be close to where we are now. And then the question is, how long is it going to last through 2023? From a growth standpoint, when we get to May, the percentage changes will be lower because we’ll have lapped 2022, right? So, it’ll start to improve from a pure growth rate standpoint. But this is a market where there’s a tremendous opportunity in growing this market. It’s very underpenetrated, single digit kind of penetration.
So the real key to growing the Aesthetics market is driving market penetration. And so, we need a broader economic support to be able to do that at the levels that we experienced in 2021 and the early part of 2022.
Rob Michael
Now look, we still feel very strong about the outlook for this business. We did not change the long-term outlook. It was greater than 9 billion [indiscernible]. In our presentation last year, we’ve maintained that. So, given the low penetration rates and given what we’ve seen in terms of how this business has rebounded in the past, we still feel very confident we’ll rebound strongly, it’s just a question of when.
Chris Schott
Okay, great. I think AbbVie’s pipeline maybe gets a little less attention than peers just given some of these huge immunology drugs, Humira, etcetera. You’ve got a broad swath of assets you’re looking at. What are the kind of 2, 3, 4 products that you’re most excited about as you think about R&D portfolio?
Jeff Stewart
Yes, sure. So, Rick has talked about several of these in his presentation, but maybe I’ll mention some and go into a little bit more detail. So, for example, we’ve talked quite a bit about Rinvoq and you’ve seen the main approvals, the four in RA, UC, and IBD, Crohn’s coming, atopic dermatitis, but we’re also – the team is getting ready for Phase 3s in lupus, Alopecia areata and Hidradenitis suppurativa, all still areas of what we would say is, high unmet need. This year, we’ll get a readout in vitiligo and potentially move into Phase 3 there.
So, still quite a bit of work and a whole another wave of Rinvoq to come that might be underappreciated. I would say something similar for venetoclax as well, our BCL-2 blocker, where we have CLL. In fact, we have a five-year data making its way through labels across the globe in frontline treatment, which is fixed duration. And we’re seeing even 65 months out maintenance of PFS and OS and the 0.72 range.
So, that’s coming in CLL. MDS was covered multiple myeloma T1114 is roughly 20% of patients will have that. So, that’s another set of data that’s coming out soon, which could also be very exciting in a very large piece of multiple myeloma. And staying in oncology. I’ll mention AML with venetoclax as well, where we have approvals in those that are ineligible for transplant or high dose chemo, which is about 50% of AML. And right now, the utilization is quite high depending on the country’s 60% to 70%.
What we don’t have is the other 50% of the patients that can take high dose chemo. So, we have three Phase 3 programs there to cover the other 50%. Post-transplant maintenance and those that for whatever reason don’t get the transplant, and in combination upfront with high dose chemo.
Rick mentioned [epco] [ph], that’s our CD3-CD20 dual engager and DLBCL, very high levels of efficacy, particularly in pre-CAR-T space, 70% ORR, CR is above 40%, and adverse event profile with CRS, mostly Grade 1 and Grade 2. If you look at Grade 3 only 2.5%, and the subcu offering. And then even if you get even more refractory in post-CAR-T ORR rates are 54% and CR rate is above 30%. So, very strong data. I think quite a bit of excitement there.
I mentioned subcutaneously the other thing in neuro, which we have is our 951 product. Rick mentioned this, of delivering levo/carbidopa without the need for surgery, which can be a barrier right now for many patients and may not want surgery, may not want deep brain stimulation.
Now, asset like 951 can really open up the space for those that can have a singular injection subcu patch essentially that will last for three days. And we’ll be able to deliver a dose like we have with DUOPA and get really nice efficacy levels of additional almost approaching three hours of on-time, better time that the patient can move on with their activities of daily living.
The other one I’ll mention in oncology is Teliso-V, which is our c-Met ADC, which intermediate and high expression of c-Met is roughly 25% of patients with relapsed non-small cell lung cancer that roughly split 12.5%, 12.5% gets you to 25% when you combine the two. We have breakthrough therapy designation there and response rates exceeding 50%. So, I can keep going, I don’t want to. But just to let you know, there’s quite a bit in the pipeline that I’ll tell you that R&D team is very excited about.
Rick Gonzalez
I think one thing that investors may not appreciate about the comment about Rinvoq and these additional indications, if you think about Humira, Humira was the only anti-TNF to ever achieve $20 billion of revenue and there were other anti-TNFs. And the reason Humira was able to do that and the others were not was the breadth of the indications that Humira was able to cover. And that’s a very important concept when you think about.
When you have a mechanism that has the ability to span broadly across multiple immune-mediated diseases, the revenue opportunity goes up exponentially. And the reason for that is, if you think about it, these are chronic drugs that patients take. So, I can build the drug within that category and the more patients that get on it, [faster or grow] [ph]. I can grow it much faster if I can spread out across many diseases at the same time and grow share across those. And that’s what we do with Humira.
We were able to get 13 different indications and that gave us the ability to create what Humira was. Rinvoq has more breadth than Humira did. And I think that’s a concept unless that you were in this business and you did the Humira experience, it’s not necessarily obvious to you.
Chris Schott
I think we’re just out of time. Look forward to the updates. Obviously a big year ahead for you guys and look forward to the guidance in a few weeks, but thanks for joining us today.
Rick Gonzalez
All right, Chris.
Chris Schott
Thanks so much.
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