Paradox Interactive AB (publ) (OTCPK:PRXXF) Q3 2022 Earnings Conference Call November 1, 2022 7:00 AM ET
Company Participants
Fredrik Wester – CEO
Alexander Bricca – CFO
Conference Call Participants
Alexander Bricca
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Paradox Quarterly Stream for the Third Quarter of 2022. I am Alexander Bricca, and I’m the CFO and even not in the studio, but still very much with me, I have Fred Wester.
Fredrik Wester
Good to be with you for this Q3 report. We will jump straight into the action by – yes, that’s me. So that’s my name. So if we want to summarize this quarter, we’ve had a really good progress in the last 12 months. Not – I would say not ending up in a strong third quarter because we have a long way to go, but at least we presented a strong third quarter.
It’s driven by a number of different factors. You have a strong DLC lineup for all the core games in our portfolio. We also have more sales in the – on the core games themselves and we see player numbers staying and increasing for a bit at least. We see production, the good progression in our core pipeline, which makes us hopeful that we will start releasing more games than only one every two years. And the profit margins has a couple of different reasons.
It’s obviously a really good sales, strong VLC sales, a bit above expectation, but also driven by strong currency tailwinds due to a weaker Swedish krona in which we report all our numbers. So that helped a bit as well. So if we move on to which releases we’ve had, like I said, most of the core games, the core pipeline of games or the live games, as we call them, have released DLCs this quarter.
We have Europa Universalis, Hearts of Iron, Crusader Kings III, and Stellaris both on the PC and console has released DLCs this quarter as well as Cities: Skylines in the management simulation genre. And a couple of smaller City: Skylines expansion that we call content creator packs and radio stations or music packs as well.
There has also been one release from our new experimental publishing label or in the label, if you wish, Paradox Arc called Across the Obelisk that has been successful and has shown really good numbers for us, good retention numbers and we hope to grow this game over the coming five to 10-year period as well, just like we do with most of the games in our core portfolio.
Also, it was the first time in a long – in a very long while that we got to meet up for PDXCON 2022 together with our fans. It’s been all since 2019, the last time due to COVID. And as always, it’s great to meet our fans and discuss with them. We had a number of different panels and chats and discussions that was just as appreciated by our fans as it was by the Paradox employees, including myself.
As you can see in the picture here, we had a classical music orchestral played with the best pieces of Paradox Music live in front of the audience here. Like I mentioned before, the monthly active users are in the higher range of the 5 million to 6 million people and we hope to see a bit uptick in this now with the release of Victoria 3 that was outside of this quarter.
As I mentioned, what happened after the quarter, we released Victoria 3 and we’re super happy with the release. We know we’ve gotten some feedback on various things with the game as well, which is to be expected with the games of this complexity level and we’re obviously working hard to make the game better and more interesting, deeper, et cetera, like we do with all our games and you’re going to see a lot of cool things coming to this game in the coming years. We released Airport Simulator: First Class, which is the second game from Playrion, our studio in Paris that makes mobile games and the initial reactions have been good as well.
We also released another Paradox Arc game Stardeus, which is a game where you build your spaceship, your broken spaceship in space and we released it in early access. I have about 30 hours in the game and I recommend anyone to play it. It’s a really good game. We released a couple of DLCs after the quarter’s end as well, like Shattered Hope for Surviving the Aftermath and Undead for Prison Architect that we have a couple of more to come as well. And we will tell you more about that in due time.
And with that, I will leave over to Alexander, who will take you through the numbers of the quarter.
Alexander Bricca
Thank you, Fred.
Very pleasant to do that with these strong numbers. So let’s start at the top. Revenues for the third quarter, SEK458 million, that can be compared to the same quarter of last year when we did SEK289 million. So it’s 58% year-over-year increase.
There are two main drivers for the increase. Fred mentioned both of them. One is the foreign currencies. So we report in Swedish krona, but we have 97%, 98% of our revenues in foreign currencies, where the dollar is the biggest, followed by euros and British pounds. And I think the dollar has gone up more than 20% compared to the third quarter of last year.
The euro and the pound, not as much, but still around 5% each. So all this helps our revenue quite a lot. But perhaps more importantly, we have released a lot more content in this quarter compared to a year ago. We actually had releases on all our five top franchises. So by Blood Alone 4, Hearts of Iron IV, Lions of the North IV, Europa Universalis IV, Plazas and Promenades IV, Cities: Skylines.
And as Fred mentioned, we also released a few smaller DLCs on Cities: Skylines, some content creator packs and some radio stations. We had Toxoids for Stellaris and Friends and Foes for Crusader Kings III, a smaller event pack, but was very much appreciated by our fans. And also a port for Stellaris console, Aquatics. And finally, the new game Across the Obelisk. So quite a lot of releases.
If we compare that to the same quarter last year, we didn’t have much at all, which we normally don’t during the third quarter since we have a couple of summer months in the quarter. We did – the biggest release was the DLC on Surviving Mars. That is pretty much it last year. So – and plus, as Fred mentioned, we had PDXCON in this year’s Q3. And that also generates attention to us in our games and it helps drive revenues a little bit.
So several reasons why we outperformed last year. We always mention our top five contributors in the five usual suspects. So it often is Cities: Skylines, Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis, Stellaris and Crusader Kings.
So operating profit, SEK221 million, new record, quite an increase compared to last year’s minus SEK45 million. Now last year was a very particular quarter since we took a SEK134 million write-off from canceling several games under development.
But even without that write-off, we still would have doubled the profit this year compared to last year. Profit before tax, SEK220 million still and profit after tax, SEK176 million. So that gives us a profit margin of 48%, quite strong and it’s quite a lot of time since we performed these strong margins. So we are, of course, very happy about that. Equity through asset ratio continues to go up, 72%, which we’re happy about, especially during these times where we see some turbulence in the market.
So we’re very happy to have a solid balance sheet, of course. Number of employees, 654. So that’s down from 742 in one year. This is part – this is due to us canceling several of our games under development, tightening our game portfolio, meaning that we have less requirement on staff. So we are almost a little more than 90 people less in our staff.
And we think this is a good staff allocation for us. So let’s dig into the numbers a little bit more. This chart shows our revenue in the green line and our top three were our main three costs in yellow, blue and red. So you can see on the green line, we have three quarters with very similar revenues. We are actually having slightly less revenue now in Q3 compared to Q2.
And how is that possible if we released so much content? Because I think this is a record quarter in terms of DLC releases for sure, more than second quarter. Well, the answer is not FX. It’s the summer months. We have a seasonal impact from July and August where we have normally less sales and we did that this year as well.
But despite that, we are almost having the same revenue as in Q2. The three costs, cost of goods sold in yellow, selling expenses in blue and administrative costs in red, all in all, SEK264 million. That is almost exactly the same as in the second quarter, but it’s less if you look back at Q3, where we did SEK342 million, so quite a lot decrease. But I just mentioned we had SEK134 million write-off in the third quarter last year and that gives the whole explanation. But let’s dig in a bit more into the cost of goods sold.
This is, as a reminder, it’s a cost for all our nine internal development studios, costs for our external development or the game development done by external studios, all our royalties that we pay, especially for Cities: Skylines. We have depreciation for acquired licenses and brands here.
So every time we acquired – so when we acquired a try on Harebrained Schemes, Playrion, World of Darkness, we put it on the balance sheet and we depreciate it. So we have SEK22 million every quarter as depreciation of these assets in our books. So yes, and then we have also – we also include costs here for our publishing organization that works with game development and development support, tech maintenance and so on.
So COGS, SEK197 million in this third quarter, down from SEK278 million last year’s Q3, but very identical as Q2, as you can see, it’s almost a straight line from the second quarter. Why did it decrease so much compared to last year? Well, again, it’s the write-offs. So perhaps we can repeat this a little bit. Yes.
Previously, we used to have the write-offs due to cancellations of somewhere around 1.5% and 2% of the capitalized development every quarter in average. But in 2020 and 2021, we started to accelerate. So we started to cancel more and more expensive projects. So this led us to back in Q3 last year, we had a thorough review of all the projects and decided to cancel several of them. So we took a onetime hit of SEK135 million.
And that we are seeing the impact from now. We haven’t had any write-offs at all this year, so neither in Q1, Q2 and Q3. But we did something else as well last year, which has helped us keeping the write-offs down and that is our approach to high-risk projects. We always divide our projects now that we are launching into high risk and low risk. If it’s considered high-risk project, we don’t capitalize our development costs during the early stages.
Instead, we take them as cost directly. So that is also something we do to keep the write-downs small. And so far, it looks like it’s working. As I said, no write-offs at all during these first three quarters. That doesn’t mean that we haven’t had any cancellations.
The high-risk projects that we run under our new games team, there we continue to cancel with at least the same frequency as we have done before. But once you take those development costs directly in the P&L, they don’t end up with any write-offs. So that’s good. I’m sure or I think it’s likely that we will see write-offs in the future, but we are planning and we have prepared ourselves to have less write-offs. That’s why we have done these things.
Okay. Let’s move on. Amortizations, so that is our planned amortizations on the capitalized development, SEK56 million in the second quarter compared to, it’s SEK11 million higher than Q3 last year – Q3 last year when we had SEK45 million. But it’s fairly much smaller than Q2 this year when we had SEK86 million. And why is this?
Well, more than last year because we have released much more content. DLC is on pretty much all our big franchises. That, of course, means that we need to – we release more and we amortize more. We have – why is it less in Q2? Well, two main reasons.
One is that for the games that we released back since Q3 2020, we have this aggressive amortization model, which means that we take quite a lot up front, the whole third the first month. And that – so we – let’s say, a little more than 18 months ago, we released a game called Empire of Sin. That – and then we have – all the games we amortize them over 18 months. So we reached the 18th month back in June. So that means starting Q3, we didn’t have any amortization left to do on the base given of Empire of Sin.
So that helped us a lot. Also, we released in Q1 and Q2, we released a lot of content on Crusader Kings III and that’s another franchise that is released since third quarter 2020, meaning that we have this aggressive amortization model.
So in Q1, we released a big DLC Royal Court. In Q2, we released another DLC, Fate of Iberia and we also released a console edition for CK III. And all that, we take – we use this aggressive amortization model, meaning that we had high cost in Q1 and Q2 for that, which we don’t see the same of in Q3. So therefore, we are having less costs now compared to Q1.
What else do we have in the COGS? Well, I mentioned that we amortize or depreciate the acquired businesses, such as Harebrained Schemes, [indiscernible], Playrion and so on, SEK22 million this quarter. It has been SEK21 million or SEK20 million previous quarters, but that is only due to currency impacts, but it’s fairly similar. Then we have royalties, tech costs for our publishing organization and the development costs that we don’t capitalize.
That’s another group that is included in cost of goods sold. And that is SEK112 million in Q3. That can be compared to SEK71 million back in Q3 last year. And what has gone up? Well, royalties to start with.
Since we had a lot of sales on Cities: Skylines since we released DLCs on Cities: Skylines in the quarter, we also end up paying royalties and to Colossal Order has developed that game. But also equally important is the release of Across the Obelisk. So that’s a co-publishing deal where all the revenues that we have end up on our top line as revenue for Paradox.
But then we share a large part of that revenue with the developer and that ends up as royalties. So the royalties in the third quarter reached SEK30 million compared to SEK13 million Q3 last year.
So quite an increase. But this is a cost, of course, we are happy to have since it’s just a correlation with our revenues. Non-capitalized development costs also went up and that has a large extent – to a large extent to do with our new games team, as I mentioned, in order to not having to have write-downs when we can sell high-risk games, we take this as costs from a start. So now we have several projects going on with the new games team. And we take all those project costs as costs during the early stages.
So that means that the part that we don’t capitalize, but take as direct cost has increased in this quarter compared to a quarter a year ago. So that’s about cost of goods sold. Let’s move over quickly to selling expenses, SEK44 million this quarter compared to SEK38 million same quarter last year. So it’s up. We released a lot of content, as we mentioned a couple of times now.
That drives selling expenses, of course. We started to market Victoria III already back in Q3. So that drove selling expenses. And we were very happy to have PDXCON back in Q3 as well, that also came with a cost, onetime cost. Nothing of this we had in the third quarter last year.
So this pushed up costs a lot. It pushed up costs more than the SEK6 million that you can see, but we have also balanced out the cost increase by several efficiency initiatives within the marketing organization. So we are doing – we are generating more sales with less money, I would say, in marketing. So we are very happy about that. Administrative expenses stays fairly flat, SEK23 million this year, this Q3 of this year compared to the same quarter last year, fairly flat.
And then we have an item towards the end. It’s not represented in the chart, but this in the table to the right, other expenses and income, plus SEK27 million. So this is mainly currency effects during the quarter. So we send the invoice to our partners like Microsoft and Steam. We book that according to the SEK, U.S.
dollar ratio it has when we send the invoice. Then the invoice is paid. And if we’re getting more money than we have booked because the dollar has increased, then it ends up here as other income. So a very favorable quarter for us in terms of currency impacts. Let’s move on.
Revenue and profit quarter-by-quarter. I think we can see two things here. One is we have had three quarters that look fairly stable because they are very similar, high revenue and high profit, but you don’t have to look far to the left to see that normally our quarter’s results and revenues fluctuate quite a lot. And even though we have had – we have been stable for three quarters, I would expect it to continue to go up and down going forward because yet we have not found the release pace that is smooth and flat. It’s normally very choppy.
So it’s – I think we’re going to see going forward the same trend as we have seen before going down and going up. But we are doing all we can to have the total trend pushing upwards. And that we can see if we look at the next slide where we have lumped four quarters together, so we have a rolling 12 months. There, we can see that we had a nice increase up until we released CK III two years ago. Then we went in the wrong direction for a little more than a year.
But then again, starting with Q4 last year, we have turned the revenue and the profit around. So if we look at 12 months together, let’s see how much we did. We did SEK1.078 billion in revenues over the last 12 months. And we did – I think it was almost SEK800 million, yes, SEK790 million of profit before tax on the last 12 months. So it’s a nice development if you compare that what we did one year ago.
Cash flow continues to be stable. Cash flow from the operating activities, nice and high. And as always, let’s say, it was SEK243 million. And we do, as always, we take as much as we can of this cash flow and invest into new games development and DLC development. Some quarters, we invest slightly more than the cash generation was, some quarters a bit less.
But all in all, we are still in a very much a growth phase. So we are pushing in considerable amounts in new games development. Total equity continues to go up. This is capitalized development is, as Fred mentioned, at SEK1.5 billion. It’s an increase of 39%, which is included here.
Here on – here you can see the total noncurrent assets is not SEK1.5 billion, but more and that’s because we have – we also have part of this, the acquired IPs that we have acquired throughout the years and also some right of use assets that’s a rent agreements that we have. That’s it.
Question-and-Answer Session
A – Alexander Bricca
Let’s see if we have got any questions. All right, this is one for you, Fred. What is the reasoning behind creating so many sub-brands for Paradox? I mean SPEED5, Paradox Arc, et cetera. And there’s a second question here hidden and why so many different studios in Stockholm instead of just one? Is this a direction Paradox will go into going forward?
Fredrik Wester
We can start with the studios. And it’s basically the idea that each studio owned their own game, so they get better focus. And it’s not as easy to just move people around in like a rob Pete to pay Paul kind of situation where you need all hands on deck on something, but rather have a more structured way to work on our games, on our live games and our upcoming games, more structured with its own game director and studio managers so you get more focus basically.
When it comes to Arc and SPEED5 which is our new like event streaming joint venture that we have together with a company called Black Molly Entertainment, Paradox Arc is our way to experiment in a way that doesn’t force us to spend a lot of money every time we want to make a new experiment or a new game. So we work together with what we consider super talented developers who have a formula that fits really well with the Paradox portfolio to begin with.
And then we can scale the game over time, like we’ve done with most of our games. Most of our games are bigger today than the month they were actually released. So that’s the way we work. When it comes to SPEED5 specifically, it’s a good way for us to speed up no fun intended. The way we do streams and events and also being a bit more experimental, maybe we’ll do some e-sports things with Paradox games.
Who knows, like, but it’s a lot up to the people who are there to come up with new cool ways to present our games and to communicate with our community at Paradox to see what — where do we want to go from here basically.
Alexander Bricca
Okay, thanks Fred.
Fredrik Wester
A long answer, but that’s it.
Alexander Bricca
Good okay. How much impact does the strong dollar have on your margins since you have most cost outside of the United States – will you see pressure?
Fredrik Wester
Yes, that’s yours, Alex.
Alexander Bricca
I will take that one. Will you see pressure on the margins when the dollar will get weaker? Yes. So we have, as I mentioned, 97%, 98% of our revenues in non-Swedish krona, so mostly dollars, but also euros, pounds and all other available currencies. But on the cost side, we have roughly 50% of our cost in the Swedish krona. So that means that we are very impacted by the exchange rates.
So if the Swedish krona is weak and that it has – as it has happened during the last year, we are doing great financially. But of course, in a situation where it starts to strengthen, that will pressure the margins towards the other end. So this is an environment that we, as any other exportation – exporting company lives in. Yes, so that’s pretty much it.
One for you, do you plan to stick with your owned IPs or will you see Paradox work with external licenses in the future?
Fredrik Wester
Yes, a long time since we worked with an external license and it takes a lot of effort to do that. So – but our focus will be and always has been to focus on our own IP. But if a good opportunity comes along, we’re not totally foreign to work with external IPs as well. If they fit our portfolio and we see a win-win situation from it, so who knows? Maybe we’ll actually do something on external IPs in the future. We’ll see, interesting.
Alexander Bricca
All right, so this is one for me, I think. Can you explain what prepaid revenue is? It’s – there is a reference in one of the notes in the Q3 report?
Well, mainly two things. One is payments from the players, so that’s preorders. So for example, when we released Victoria 3 last week, we opened up pretty much a month in advance. So you could – as a player, you could start preordering and pay. So the payment we get through that, we put up in the balance sheet. We don’t recognize it as a, revenue until we release a game, but we put it as a preorder.
The same goes for different season passes and expansion passes. We had a big release of one of those preorders back in Q1, because when we sell new games, we often also sell some kind of deluxe package, which includes the following two, three DLCs. We have done that Victoria 3 as well. So whatever doesn’t – whatever of that payment, it doesn’t regard the base game, we consider prepaid revenue. So we don’t take it as revenue until we release that DLC.
So that is one part of it. The other part is when we get different license fees and minimum guarantees from our distributing partners. For example, we have Microsoft and Epic where we get payments in lump sum, so then when we put that as a balance sheet and recognize it over time when their players kind of consume our games.
Question for you, Fred, in the CEO comments, for the Q2 report, you talked about giving one or a few updates for future releases. Is that still your ambition?
Fredrik Wester
Yes, I mean, we always have high ambitions and I would love to talk more about our upcoming games. We mentioned 15 in the pipeline. That is excluding Paradox Arc, by the way, but even more important than ambition is not to overpromise and under-deliver. So what we have to do is just wait until the games are actually ready to be presented and then we will present them.
And the ambition has been to present a couple on this side of the year. I’m not sure we can do that. But yes, we’ll do it as soon as we’re ready to. And obviously, it comes closer and closer. So it’s any month now we’ll come with more information. What do you think of that, Alex?
Alexander Bricca
All right, will you continue to tap into the mobile gaming market? If yes, do you expect to expand your mobile activities or do you prefer to focus on GSG and keep mobile activities as a hobby?
Well, our main focus, our vast majority of our efforts and resources goes into GSGs and city builders because that is where we have proven ourselves. But we have a studio and publisher in Playrion in Paris who has just released Airport Simulators we had strong success. Still early days, but the numbers that we’re seeing so far is very promising. So we’re very happy about that release.
And they also have since many years back, a very successful management games on mobile called Airline Manager. So Playrion will continue to do their thing and we have, of course, high hopes for them. Meanwhile, the rest of Paradox is focusing on, to a large extent, GSGs and management games.
More questions. This is for you, Fred. Regarding your work with Paradox Arc, now that Across the Obelisk and Stardeus have become successful launches, will you scale up budget and personnel who works with the titles or how will you tackle that task?
Fredrik Wester
Yes, we hope to do that. We need to look at the numbers and see can these games grow over time. And I would say the – both these launches are successful from – when it comes to game reception. We just need to see if they have the retention that we’re looking for and that they have the potential to scale and that the developer wants to continue working with us for a long period of time because it’s also very hard to change between different developers and whatnot.
So there are a couple of things that we need to figure out. But our hope is that both of these games are going to be able to scale over time and start making an impact. At the moment, they’re not moving the needle so much when it comes to the revenue or profit. But we hope that in a couple of years’ time, they will be able to do so. So absolutely, they’re on the radar and we’ll follow this up closely.
Alexander Bricca
All right, how much of the roughly SEK 1.5 billion in capitalized development is due to unreleased games, and are DLCs capitalized? If so how much are from DLCs, can you provide any color on how large size is expected to be released next year?
Okay. I can try to answer this one, several questions in one. So the SEK 1.5 billion of capitalized development, that’s right, it’s a mix of unreleased new games and those new games are – some of them are sequels and some of them are new franchises. Part of the capitalized development is also unreleased DLCs. So we do – yes, we capitalize DLCs as well. And some of this is released games and DLCs that are not just fully amortized.
We do not provide an exact split between projects and segments in our revenues or in our capitalized development. But I can say that the vast majority of the capitalized development is from unreleased new games. DLCs is a very important business for us, but it comes with a great benefit and that the development of them doesn’t cost that much. So they don’t generate that big part of the capitalized development share.
More questions okay. Profit margins are at very high levels. What are key initiatives in maintaining these margins? What are needed in terms of DLC activity and performance of new games looking into 2023?
Yes, so as you know, revenues and profits, highly variable between quarters because we release in big variation. And that is why we – so when we sit and do these streams, we of course, do the year-on-year comparison. But for us, it doesn’t make much sense, I think, to some extent, but not that much. If we look at the past quarters, we have been a bit uniquely positioned to attain these high profit margins.
We have had no write-offs. We have had very strong currency impact. We almost – the biggest part of our revenues come from DLCs, and DLCs are fairly inexpensive to develop. So that comes with very high margins. So I think it’s difficult to beat a quarter like this where we have strong FX and making the DLC – the revenue from DLCs.
Fredrik Wester
Yes, when it comes to margin, right? When it comes to 48% margin, it’s going to be hard, yes.
Alexander Bricca
Yes, I think so. But – so we don’t provide any forward-looking statements and – but of course, a continued strong DLC lineup is necessary to continue to have these high margins. And but we are mixing that up with trying to come out with new games and establish I would say a six – to start with a six franchise.
We always have these five user suspects when we talk about revenue generation, but we are hoping that Victoria 3 is becoming the sixth one now. And later on, we are hoping for a seventh, of course, as well.
So a question for you, Fred very high DLC release activity in Q3 ’22. How much of this is an effect of your increased focus versus a catch-up from lower activity during the pandemic? What does it imply for Q4 and the following quarters? If it’s partly due to a catch-up, how much of these catch-up effects remains to be seen, that’s a very specific question?
Fredrik Wester
Yes, I would say that maybe a little bit of it is a catch-up from COVID, but the vast majority of it would be an increased change in focus and an increased focus on the live games and the DLC production. So I would expect a higher level and a higher rate of DLC releases going forward if you look at the company as a whole.
And if you look at the dollar value in total that the company releases throughout the year, because it’s not only the cadence of DLCs, it’s obviously – it’s not smaller DLCs like a music pack can’t be really compared to, say, Royal Court by Crusader Kings III. But I would estimate the dollar value year-on-year to grow, yes.
Alexander Bricca
Questions keep coming in. Let’s do a couple of more working capital buildup this quarter, it’s mainly related to DLC releases late in September or anything else worth mentioning?
No, it’s nothing in particular. It varies with our releases, if we have released something big, but – an invoice, but not yet received money, it goes in one way. So it’s going to swing back and forth a bit from month-to-month and quarter-to-quarter. No real trend here.
One more question. How should we think in the midterm, will you invest in new game development or will you go into more of a harvest mode and manage the existing portfolio and invest in DLCs?
Fredrik Wester
Well, we are investing quite a lot in game development. As we mentioned, we have 15 games in the pipeline and we hope all of them sooner or later are going to come out. So if you do the math and an average game development period is between three and four years, you can sort of count backwards and reverse engineer the idea on how many games we’re releasing. But we’re going to continue to really – to invest more in both – full big games and DLCs and combine it with the efforts that Paradox Arc is doing with experimental games as well.
So it’s not like we’re just awaiting the cash flow avalanche of the released games, but that’s going to go into new projects where we’re going to do new cool things and we’re going to reach new levels as a company as well. So that’s the whole idea.
Alexander Bricca
All right, that looks like all the questions. If we have missed any questions or if you come up with new questions, feel free to e-mail us either directly to me or Fred or you can e-mail ir@paradoxinteractive.com and we will answer them via e-mail. We will see you next time at the beginning of February when we have the full year and Q4 report to share with you. And until then, thank you very much for watching and have a good day.
Fredrik Wester
Thank you very much. Take care. See you soon. Cheers.
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