Canaccord Genuity Group Inc. (OTCPK:CCORF) Q2 2022 Earnings Conference Call November 3, 2022 8:00 AM ET
Company Participants
Daniel Daviau – President and Chief Executive Officer
Don MacFayden – Chief Financial Officer
Conference Call Participants
Graham Ryding – TD Securities
Stephen Boland – Raymond James
Rob Goff – Echelon
Jeff Fenwick – Cormark Securities
Operator
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by. I’d like to welcome everyone to the Canaccord Genuity Group Inc. Fiscal 2023 Second Quarter Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] As a reminder, this conference call is being broadcast live online and recorded.
I would now like to turn the conference call over to Mr. Dan Daviau, President and CEO. Please go ahead, Mr. Daviau.
Daniel Daviau
Thank you, operator, and thanks to everyone joining us for today’s call. As always, I’m joined by Don MacFayden, our Chief Financial Officer. Following the overview of our second quarter fiscal 2023results, both Don and I will be pleased to answer questions from analysts and institutional investors.
Today’s remarks are complementary to our earnings release, MD&A and supplementary financials, copies of which have been made available for download on SEDAR and on the Investor Relations section of our website at cgf.com. Within our update, certain reported information has been adjusted to exclude significant items in order to provide a transparent and comparative view of our operating performance.
These adjusted items are non-IFRS financial measures. Please refer to our notice regarding forward-looking statements and the description of non-IFRS financial measures that appear in our investor presentation and also in our MD&A.
And with that, let’s discuss our second fiscal quarter. For several months, markets have been worried about economic growth, aggressive central bank policy actions, soaring inflation, political instabilities, and the war in Ukraine. Both public and private markets have suffered a significant reduction in deal volumes, particularly in our core sectors in our capital markets businesses. With fewer investors in the market, asset valuations and wealth management have also come under pressure.
Market showed signs of stabilizing in late summer, but uncertainty and volatility returned in September and equity markets in all of our core geographies posted negative returns. While this cycle has been markedly more difficult for almost all market participants, and we expect continued uncertainty for several more quarters, our business has performed well.
Steps we have taken to reduce our reliance on underwriting activities and increased contributions from our wealth management and M&A advisory businesses have contributed to our resilience during the worst new issue environment that I can recall.
Adjusted firm-wide revenue for the three-month period was $382 million, a decrease of 20% from the second quarter of last year. When measured on a year-to-date basis, revenue for the first 6 months of this fiscal year amounted to $711 million, down 29% from the same period a year ago. Expectedly, the declines in revenue can primarily be attributed to the significant market-wide reduction in new issue activity.
I will also note that fluctuations in foreign exchange contributed to certain changes in our second quarter revenue and expense items from our international operations as reported in Canadian dollars as well as the value of client assets in our U.K. and Australian wealth businesses.
Excluding significant items, we earned pretax net income of $51 million, up 84% sequentially but down 47% when compared to the same period last year. This translated to diluted earnings per share of $0.25 for the three-month period, bringing our fiscal year-to-date adjusted EPS to $0.36.
Turning to expenses. Adjusted non-compensation expenses as a percentage of revenue declined 2.7 percentage points compared to the most recent fiscal quarter to 28.6% as we continue to carefully manage expenses in a difficult market environment. This percentage is obviously up from a year ago, primarily reflective of a concentration of higher promotion and travel expenses following the easing of pandemic restrictions in addition to development costs to support the growth of the company.
Interest expense also increased in connection with bank loans obtained for our wealth management acquisitions in the U.K. and Crown Dependencies. In difficult markets like this, we are carefully monitoring our costs, but importantly not at the expense of harming our culture or compromising the client experience. Excluding significant items, our compensation ratio for the 3-month period was lower than our target range at 58.2% due in part to the reduction in the fair value of stock-based compensation granted in previous periods.
With the exception of our wealth businesses and new partners in some of the M&A boutiques we have acquired, we have not materially increased our headcount, and we expect to be able to manage within our historical comp ratios. Our business continues to be well capitalized, giving us the financial flexibility to be opportunistic in this period of dislocation, while upholding our commitment to shareholder returns.
While we returned less capital in this quarter, our Board of Directors has approved a quarterly common share dividend of $0.085 putting us on track for a third consecutive year of dividend growth. Looking forward, we expect to continue to be opportunistic with our balance sheet on strategic growth initiatives or share buybacks, while maintaining a strong balance sheet.
Turning to the performance of our operating businesses. I will start with capital markets. Our combined global capital markets business earned revenue of $206 million for the 3-month period, a decrease of 32.5% when compared to the same period a year ago. Obviously, our total revenues continue to be impacted by the lack of new issue activity in our core markets. Historically, investment banking revenue has represented one third or more of our total capital markets revenue, whereas this quarter it dropped to 17%.
The U.S. was our largest contributor of revenue in this division at $129 million for the 3-month period. Of this amount, 58% or $75 million was attributed to advisory activities, which remained robust through the 3-month period.
On a consolidated basis, capital markets advisory revenue was down 27% year-over-year but increased 22% sequentially, which reflects quarter-over-quarter increases from our Canadian and U.S. businesses. Principal trading and commission and fee revenue decreased by 12% respectively, compared to the second quarter of last fiscal year, reflecting softer client activity levels across markets.
Investment banking revenue for our combined global capital markets business was down 60% year-over-year, slightly above the 55% global decline in ECM volumes and to be expected given our core mid-market growth sectors. 184% in increase when compared to the most recent financial quarter is largely due to the write-downs on inventory and warrant positions that impacted our first quarter results. Inventory P&L in respect of warrant, fee shares and facilitation activity, returned to levels more consistent with the period before Q1 of this year, reflecting the absence of the larger market movements we saw in Q1.
Unsurprisingly, the metal and mining sector has been the strongest for our underwriting activities, accounting for 49% of fiscal year-to-date investment banking revenues, primarily within our Australian, Canadian and U.K. businesses. The health care sector contributed 23% of revenue in this segment, primarily from our U.S. business.
Notwithstanding the dramatic reduction in ECM activity that has been persistent through the first half of this fiscal year, we continue to defend and build upon our excellent market position in all CG regions and verticals. While several deals continue to be pushed as companies await a more stable environment, our clients remain highly engaged.
In this environment of rising interest rates, supply chain pressures and inflation, the demand for capital among small and growth-oriented companies will remain high. We expect that our investing clients will inevitably become more active in supporting high-quality new issues in time.
Additionally, we’re not expecting the IPO market to reopen quickly, but history tells us there can be a strong bounce back when it does, and we are very well positioned to recapture our historic leadership in this segment. We appreciate this is a difficult environment with arguably the worst new issue market in decades. That said, we are reassured and encouraged by the fact that our capital markets business produced adjusted pretax net income of $26 million and EPS of $0.10 per share.
Our wealth management division remains resilient throughout the 3-month period despite the reduced new issue activity in our Canadian and Australian businesses. Firm-wide client assets amounted to $88.6 billion as of September 30, a decrease of 10% compared to the same period last year.
The decline was primarily attributed to lower market values and the impact of foreign exchange, partially offset by new assets and positive inflows. Our combined global wealth management businesses earned revenue of $170 million for the 3-month period, an increase of 2% year-over-year, bringing fiscal year-to-date revenue to $332 million.
The adjusted pretax net income contribution was $28 million, which represents 54% of our firm-wide pretax net income for the quarter and 60% of our EPS. Our U.K. business was the largest contributor during the 3-month period with revenue of $81 million, of which 79% was from fee-based accounts. Record quarterly interest income of $3.7 million partially offset the higher variable interest rate expense associated with the previously mentioned bank loans to support growth in this business.
Looking ahead, we expect continued contributions from our recent acquisition of PSW in addition to greater benefits from the synergies we are unlocking as we progress with the integration of the businesses that we have acquired in the past 12 months.
Despite the dramatic decline in new issue activity, second quarter revenue from our North American wealth management business was relatively flat year-over-year at $73 million. The decline in new issue activity in this business was to offset with record interest revenue of $11 million for the 3-month period.
And finally, second quarter revenue in our Australian business declined 21% year-over-year to $15 million, bringing the fiscal year-to-date revenue to $31 million. And finally, second quarter revenue in our Australia business declined 21% year-over-year to $15 million, bringing the fiscal year-to-date revenue to $31 million.
While this total is below last year’s record levels, I will note that it is comfortably above the full year revenue that this business generated in fiscal 2020. We’re continuing to invest in the growth of our wealth management businesses, which also supports our earnings stability through market cycles.
In Canada and Australia, we are having productive engagements in support of our recruiting initiatives and with our enhanced scale we are also turning our attention to developments that will support new asset inflows globally. You’ve heard me say before that we remain committed to our long-term strategy despite the near-term global economic challenges.
Like all industry participants, we remain cautious in our near-term outlook, but I continue to have incredible confidence in our future. We have proven we can be incredibly agile and productive in a broad range of challenging environments, and this one is no exception.
Our independence allows us to support our clients in creative and innovative ways during difficult times, and this gives us a strong competitive advantage when conditions improve. Our trading businesses continue to provide excellent support for our clients in wealth management and capital markets. And our technology teams remain focused on enhancing our firm-wide capabilities to ensure we are well positioned to scale when volumes return.
We are also steadily adding to our product capabilities to increase opportunities for our business and/or clients throughout the cycle. While prolonged market downturns are always uncomfortable, we are fortunate to have an outstanding mix of capable and talented professionals who share our commitment to supporting our clients throughout the downturn and emerging in a position of greater strength.
With that, we will now open the line for questions. Operator?
Question-and-Answer Session
Operator
[Operator Instructions] Your first question will come from Graham Ryding of TD Securities.
Graham Ryding
Just maybe a little bit of commentary on the near-term outlook for both advisory and equity underwriting relative to what we’ve seen over the last couple of quarters?
Daniel Daviau
One is easy to predict, one is not, Graham. What a great question.
Graham Ryding
That’s why I did say near term, but I appreciate that.
Daniel Daviau
Yes. I think the equity underwriting market — I’ll start with the negative. I mean I think the equity underwriting market is going to continue to be challenging. I mean, you would see it as well as we would. I don’t think much has changed in the market. On the negative side, I think there’s just not a ton of new issue activity in Canada and the U.S. in our core technology and health care sectors. That shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone on this call.
On the positive side of it is our metals and mining and alternative metals and rare earth business continues to do well. So half of our underwriting — over half of our underwriting activity last quarter was those sectors, and that’s continuing, arguably increasing. I’d say arguably because we’re — we’ve still got two months left in this quarter, the one that we’re currently in. So it’s hard to, for sure, predict. But in theory, those sectors continue to perform well.
M&A much easier to predict. I mean there’s been no change. It’s been strong and it’s going to be — continue to be strong. I appreciate that the overall M&A market is down, but primarily on the back of large leverage transactions that require significant debt and financing. It’s the financing market that’s backed up. That’s not the area of M&A that we tend to be focused on, Graham, as you know. It tends to be mid-market M&A in those core sectors that don’t support massive leverages in deals. So we continue to be active.
In addition, with the volatility in the market and things getting hammered, we have an active base. We’re the #1 IPO underwriter. We’ve got a number of deal underwriter. We have a lot of public market clients that need our services too. So we don’t see, again, early to predict deals get pushed out, M&A deals get pushed out, but the pace of activity continues unabated. Does that kind of answer your question?
Graham Ryding
Yes. That’s good color. Maybe we could jump to U.K. wealth. I just noticed the — well, I thought broadly, you did a good job on compensation expense across all your divisions, but I did notice that your non-comp expense in U.K. wealth ticked up quarter-over-quarter and it seemed to weigh on your pretax margins a little bit relative to sort of your run rate the last four to six quarters. So maybe just some commentary on that front.
Daniel Daviau
Don, do you want to take that? Well, Don and I are in a different location today. So it may be a little bit of passing things back and forth. I’m happy to answer, Don, but why don’t you try your first on that.
Don MacFayden
I’ll just start off. Graham, it was really a function of — with the acquisition of PSW late first quarter, we’re still going through the integration process and working our way through that. That’s targeted to sort of be complete by early next fiscal year, so sometime in April. But until then, we’ll probably see a little bit of a higher uptick in our noncomp costs related to that acquisition.
Daniel Daviau
All right. Also the interest income would be in there, wouldn’t it?
Don MacFayden
And the interest income has…
Daniel Daviau
Interest expense, I’m sorry, the interest expense?
Don MacFayden
Yes, sorry. Well, both interest income and interest expense. We did add the additional bank loan associated with the acquisition of PSW. So that combined with obviously higher rates would have impacted the noncomp expenses as well.
Daniel Daviau
Remember, we funded that acquisition in part through a sell-down of the business to HPS at GBP 720 million valuation and in part through increasing our bank line exposure in the U.K.
Graham Ryding
Is that a variable rate bank line?
Don MacFayden
Yes, it’s a typical base plus a margin on top of the base. So it will vary with market rates.
Daniel Daviau
But, Graham, the reason we haven’t fixed that in part, just so you understand, is we also have significant interest income in that market. It’s pretty much a natural hedge.
Graham Ryding
And the revenue yield there, Don, was a little bit higher. Is that just like in U.K. wealth? Is that just a reflection of bringing in PSW?
Don MacFayden
Yes, it certainly did contribute to the revenue side, yes. And there is — the fee-based income was affected by the downturn in client — in value of assets, but there is also execution and type activity that continued pretty well on track.
Graham Ryding
Okay. And just my last one, if I could. Just can you remind us of your dividend policy? I think you based it off your wealth management earnings, but — okay.
Daniel Daviau
Yes. I mean the idea was always — again, with some of the — when I say the wealth management earnings, I could probably be a little bit more precise, the predictable element of wealth management earnings as opposed to the new issued trunk of wealth management earnings. And, they’re up or flat. So we don’t contemplate a reduction in our dividend in the near future, that dividend should continue to move up to the right. We’ve increased that dividend 6 times now, Don, or 5x in the last four years, like I suspect that will continue to be the pace of activity.
Obviously, as the market goes down, our income in wealth will go down, but negligibly compared to the growth and some of the organic growth and the acquisitive growth we’re seeing in that area. So I wouldn’t expect a change in our dividend policy materially one way or the other right now.
Operator
Your next question comes from Stephen Boland of Raymond James.
Stephen Boland
Maybe we could just talk about Canadian wealth management, maybe two questions there. The assets held in pretty well quarter-over-quarter, actually pretty stable. I noticed that you did get a couple or a few net advisory teams after maybe a year of not recruiting. Maybe you just talked about that environment. What type of advisers are you looking for in Canada? Because certainly the revenue in total was pretty resilient suggesting that maybe they’re more fee-based as opposed to commission based. Maybe just talk about that, please.
Daniel Daviau
Again, all great questions and warrants additional color for sure. I guess just on the one kind of comment that you made on the way through in the middle that we haven’t been — that we hadn’t seen a lot of additions lately. We’re always seeing additions every month or 2, we’re bringing on teams. What you may have seen from a total advisory team perspective in the Canadian numbers — I’m just opening them up as we’re talking — is we will parse out smaller teams, right?
So we’re bringing on new teams. Smaller teams are naturally exiting the business and that’s very intentional. You want to maximize the returns [indiscernible] without growing to a silly number, opening up new offices or taking on new fixed costs. So we’re always bringing on teams of advisers from that perspective.
If you look at that, 90% — probably higher, 95% of most of the people we hire are traditional wealth managers fee-based, not kind of the old stock broking model. The vast majority of you can name on one hand or less, the number of kind of transactional advisers that we would have brought on to the franchise throughout the 50 or so people that we brought on. So it shouldn’t come as a surprise that those revenues increase.
In addition, you’ll see the benefit of people that we hired three months ago, six months ago. The books tend to follow the brokers pretty robustly, but not within a week, right? It takes a month, it takes two months, it takes three months. So you see that activity pacing through. Again, we’d expect that to continue notwithstanding the market malaise. Obviously, when the market goes down, a little harder to move people across.
But we continue to see a pretty good pace of activity of bringing the right type of broker across. Again, we’re generally targeting wealth managers and those brokers. I think, Don, on average, you’ll correct me if I’m wrong, again, we probably don’t publicly disclose this, but on average about $250 million books on average, close enough.
Donald MacFayden
Yes, close enough. Its — yes. Yes, I think that’s a pretty good number.
Daniel Daviau
Does that answer your question, Steve? Or were you looking for other details than that?
Stephen Boland
No, that’s very helpful. I know it’s always competitive getting new advisers on board. Has there been any change in terms of the types of bonus or percentages that you have to pay? Or has it been relatively stable for the last three to six months?
Daniel Daviau
Stable to trending. I’m reluctant to say. Not trending up. I didn’t say trending down, but not trending up, let’s put it that way.
Stephen Boland
Okay. And maybe just back to your outlook, Dan. I think, obviously, we pushed out the recovery maybe as you put in your remarks into calendar 2023. Is there — in your experience, is there a specific geography that may be a leading indicator? Or is it just the global market is the global market? I’m just wondering if we start to see activity in the U.K. or in the U.S. with — especially with equity issuances, does that kind of lead to the other sector?
Daniel Daviau
Great question. Not really. I’d say the — we have two leading indicators in our business that I look to a little bit from broader activity. One actually is our Australian mining activity. For some reason, Australian mining just clicks in sooner than the rest of the world. And in fact, we’re seeing it now.
Again, I don’t need to tell you anything you can’t pull at public lead tables where one of the top underwriters in Australia by a number of deals, that top underwriter in Australia. So — and that’s mainly mining lithium, rare earth, that type of stuff, and that is active already and continues. That tends to lead the rest of the world.
Our other leading indicator, believe it or not, tends to be the retail new issues that flow through our retail side. Remember, we’ve got a subset, handfuls of brokers that tend to do a lot of small financings. We find that those financings tend to be a pretty good leading indicator of what’s happening elsewhere.
So if they start doing lithium deals or cannabis deals or some things, sure enough three months later we’re doing institutional deals. We haven’t really seen that activity yet to be clear. So that’s kind of what I track on a day-to-day basis. I mean and I can’t explain either one, to be honest, it’s just seems to be factually accurate.
Stephen Boland
Okay. That makes sense. So I’ll sneak one more in. Just I know you’re in the middle of still probably integrating your U.K. acquisitions. Have you seen — I mean you’re probably still always looking at deals over there. Is there any changes in valuations, anything like that, that you’re seeing coming in the door?
Daniel Daviau
Not yet. Again, pretty active market valuations remain reasonably robust. I guess I got a little nervous with the volatility in the U.K. political environment and thought maybe that would change things a little bit. But there’s not enough data points to create a really good line, but there’s still enough data points to think that the market really hasn’t changed.
There’s several consolidators in the space. You’ve seen several firms enter the space, including a large Canadian bank. We’ve seen U.S. firms on this call with your firm enter into the space. So yes, there seems to be still a lot of broad interest in the wealth management space in the U.K., and that shouldn’t come as a surprise.
It continues to be a disaggregated space. It’s an incredibly stable and growing business. So I think value — I think the gross valuations are down, but that’s because assets are down and revenue is down, but the multiple on that — on those revenues or earnings or EBITDA, I don’t believe has changed.
Operator
Your next question comes from Rob Goff of Echelon.
Rob Goff
The first one is with the lower activity levels in the marketplace, are you seeing any changing competitive dynamics in terms of how deals are priced or structured or fees?
Daniel Daviau
Yes, great question. I wish. In other words, I wish we were doing any deals, so I can see that things are structured differently. I mean clearly, this is a buyer’s market. I don’t need to tell you that. I just look at my own stock price. Yes. things — deals are going to get. And again, this is probably a conversation over lunch. But again, the spaces we tend to operate on, technology, health care, sustainability, those are all pretty high beta sectors.
To get deals once it opens — and it’s not open now, but once it opens, it’s back to very structured financings to get things done. We don’t care. I mean that’s great for us, warrants and all that kind of stuff. So that’s fantastic. But I suspect that’s the way the markets will open up initially, no different than they were four or five years ago when they opened up. So is that your question?
Rob Goff
Yes. That makes sense. And then my follow-up question, you’ve already addressed in terms of the consolidators in the U.K. wealth market. Could you talk to other regions, be it Australia or the U.S., in what you were seeing in terms of potential acquisitions, acquisition valuations, whether they are reflecting the tougher conditions?
Daniel Daviau
I can’t speak to the U.S., Rob, just because we don’t — it’s not on our strategic list of priorities. And so I don’t pay — and obviously, I pay a passing interest to it. But I think others have a more intelligent view on that market or a more up-to-date view on that market than I would have. Australia continues to be an interesting market.
We do and we will continue to invest in our Australia growth plan. That could be organically, that could be inorganically. We continue to attract very, very good wealth advisers to our platform, again rinse and repeat what we did in Canada.
I think the only thing different in Australia is there is a number of independent platforms out there. And I think they could be available at significantly less valuations than what we — than what they would be in the U.K. It’s a different market, right? It’s not much — it’s not a heavy wealth management market. It’s a stock broking market.
So there’s — I don’t want to say fix or upper, but it’s a market where you got to buy stuff and change models and stuff. That is a significantly different value paradigm than buying something like our U.K. business as an example.
And we’re comfortable doing that because we’ve done it in Canada, significantly transformed our Canadian wealth business, as you know. So there could be opportunities there. It wasn’t that many years ago, three years ago now, Don, that we bought Patterson with somewhere between $5 billion and $15 billion on that.
That’s however you want to manage it, however you want to talk about it, and we paid $27 million for that — and that business made us $7 million or $6 million last year. So it’s a different value paradigm in Australia than it is elsewhere. It’s a very long answer to a very short question, so I’ll be quiet now.
Operator
Your final question will come from Jeff Fenwick of Cormark Securities.
Jeff Fenwick
I think most of my questions were answered already, but maybe one more higher-level one here. Just in terms of prioritizing capital investment from here, you mentioned your stock price and where it’s sitting today maybe between share buybacks, Canada wealth where you’re seeing some opportunity to pick up by A teams and you’ve been making investments in M&A. Like is there any one area or market right now where you think you’d like to prioritize your focus for your investment?
Daniel Daviau
Yes. Great question. Our dividend is very important. I consider that part of our capital obligations. And obviously, we’re continuing that. But at 100 million shares outstanding, that’s $8 million, $9 million a quarter, not that we’re not earning way more than that, we are. So clearly, there’s excess capital beyond that that we’re even earning now, let alone what we had. Again volatile markets create change. And I certainly wouldn’t want to be in a position where I couldn’t execute on that change.
Rob asked a good question before. He says, “Hey, what’s going on the deals and deal structures”. I really wouldn’t want to have to go into the market tomorrow and raise money because something phenomenal came along that we wanted to execute on, like that wouldn’t be prudent.
So we want to be careful on stock buybacks, I think, right now. Nothing’s fundamentally changed. We still have our normal course issuer bid. We’ve done a series of substantial issuer bids. We’ve taken our stock count down in the last couple of years from 135 million shares to close to 100 million shares today. So that hasn’t changed, but we do want to be careful.
In terms of where we would deploy capital, and again, that changes. Nothing fundamentally has changed in our views. We like wealth. We are going to continue to deploy capital for wealth. It will be in our core markets: Canada, Australia, U.K., although U.K. tends to be self-funding. It doesn’t generally require capital from the parent because we’ve got a partner in that business. So that means Canada and Australia for that. We like M&A.
That being said, we’ve got most of what we like on the M&A side, not completely. There could be other things. There are other things that are emerging that are really, really interesting and could be very, very cost effective. I’m not saying we’re going to announce anything in the next two weeks because I wouldn’t say what I just said if I was. But there are opportunities out there, and we want to be prudent and be able to execute on them.
Jeff Fenwick
That’s helpful color. And maybe one last one. We had some accounts asking about the cannabis space just given some of the commentary at the federal level in the U.S. and to the opportunities and particularly given your cross-border capabilities. Like what’s your thinking in that space there? It’s been obviously a good revenue generator in the past. Is that something you just kind of have to wait for, but I think pretty well position you’re in?
Daniel Daviau
Yes. I think we continue to be well positioned. Who knows if it really opens up in the U.S. There’s a scenario to be said that there’ll be enough reform that will allow large institutions to buy the stock. Yet they still won’t be able to be listed in the U.S. That would probably be unbelievable for everyone in the Canadian capital markets.
That being said, even if the business transitions to a full U.S. listing with U.S. institutional participation, yes, we’ll have more competitors. And I’m sure our market share will fall a little bit, but the market will be 10x the size. So I think net-net-net, we’d earn more money.
I think the other advantage of with enhanced activity in the stock, last quarter, we did take some hits on some positions. You saw that. And this quarter, we did not take any hits on positions. We got liquidity on lots of different things that we own. I’m not saying it was 100% cannabis stuff, but there definitely was some stuff there.
So just from a onetime impact to our financial results, I think we feel a little bit better right now in terms of where we’re at and what we’re doing. So yes, cannabis will be good for us. But last quarter, Don, I’d actually — let’s put it this way, it’s so small that I don’t know what the revenue number was. Banking revenue from cannabis last quarter what was Life Sciences and total, which only a small subset of that is —
Donald MacFayden
I don’t have that in front of me. But it was obviously quite a bit less than what we would have seen a few years ago.
Daniel Daviau
Yes, I’m going to stop talking again, Jeff, but it’s all upside. Let’s put it that way. There’s not a lot in there right now. Thanks. Great questions. Okay. I think we’re done on questions, operator, is that right?
Operator
Correct, sir, there are no further questions.
Daniel Daviau
Okay. Listen, I really appreciate very, very good questions. Appreciate your continued interest in our stock and certainly appreciate the fact that our investors will have to ride through a pretty terrible market here. Obviously, as a company, we continue to feel very strong about our position and where we’re going. So I appreciate that.
This really concludes our conference call. And as always, Don and I are more than available to answer questions. So thank you very much, operator, and we can close the line.
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude the conference call for this morning. Thank you all for your participation. And you may now disconnect your lines.
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